Nov. 13, 2024

A New Approach to Thriving at Work: The Biopsychosocial-Spiritual Model for Wellbeing

A New Approach to Thriving at Work: The Biopsychosocial-Spiritual Model for Wellbeing

What if you could harness the best of behavior science and AI to create a workplace where people truly thrive? In this episode, we sit down with Matt Shenker, who has trained thousands of leaders, therapists, and educators on how to apply Empowered...

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What if you could harness the best of behavior science and AI to create a workplace where people truly thrive? In this episode, we sit down with Matt Shenker, who has trained thousands of leaders, therapists, and educators on how to apply Empowered Well-being Theory—a unique approach that combines insights from biology, psychology, social sciences, and spirituality. We’ll explore how Mattermore is helping leaders build “Work 4.0”—a new era of empowered, compassionate leadership and culture.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to a Working Purpose program which has been

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brought to you with passionate and pride since February of

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twenty fifteen. Great to have you with us again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Earlis Cortes, and if we've not

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met yet and you don't know me, I'm an organizational

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psychologist and logal therapists, speaker and author. My team and

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I at Gusto now help companies to enliven and fortify

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their operations by building a dynamic, high performance culture and

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infra social leadership activated by meaning and purpose. You can

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learn more of best and how we can work together

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at gustodashnow dot com or my personal site at least

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Coortes dot com. Before we get into today's program, I'm

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thrilled to announce that registration is now open for a

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fabulous new conference for women for which I'll serve as

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the MC. It's called Thrive in twenty five and it's

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a jam packed few days in Chicago, June twenty fifth

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through the twenty eighth. Twenty twenty five designs to develop

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women as whole selves, from bolstering your mindset to your

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financial acumen, to leadership, to incorporating nature and art into

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your life to raise consciousness, and so much more. You

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can visit Thrive dash In twenty five the number for

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information and to register. Use my promo promotion code of

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Gusto all caps to gain access to the free books

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and programs. I'll be also gifting registrates registrants. See you

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there getting in today's program. We have with us today

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Matt Schenker, who is the chief solutions Architect, the chief

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operations officer and co founder at Mattermore, where they're working

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to empower the future of work, what they call work

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four point zero. He joins us today from New York. Matt,

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Welcome to Working.

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On Purpose, Alice. Thanks so much for having me so great.

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As I said before we got on air, I love

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what you're up to, and I absolutely love the name

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of your company. Before we get into any of that, though,

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let's just let our listeners and viewers who don't know

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you yet yet the way that I do, just hear

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a bit about your background and how you found your

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way into the work you do today.

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Absolutely so. I've been a licensed therapist for over a decade.

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I got into that work because I was an addict

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who struggled. I had ADHD as a kid. I still

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hold the record for most suspensions given to a kid

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at the elementary school I went to so I hold

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that with pride, and you know, I fell into a

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teenagehood and early adulthood where I was really lost and overwhelmed,

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and that led me down a path of becoming a

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therapist and then a trainer of other therapists, and then

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working with schools to help them utilize the best of

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behavior science. And then while I was doing all of that,

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a whole bunch of my best friends kept calling me,

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and they kept asking me questions anytime they had a

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challenge with their employees. And finally I was like, what

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kind of training did you guys get? And they were like,

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what do you mean training? And led me to really

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working with organizations and leaders and transforming L and D systems.

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And I was lucky enough to do that in a

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place where I met a whole bunch of people doing

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interesting things with AI. And since then we've been exploring

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how do we build an AI product that transforms how

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we lead and learn at work.

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That was incredibly succinct. Let's peel back that just to

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smanch here math first, kudos for being able to dive

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into your own aim to be able to help others.

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One of the things that I've learned in my purpose work,

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Matt and you probably have figured this out too, is

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when I curated this collection of stories and women around

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the world of how they discovered their purpose and are

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now serving mightily from it. I discovered in their stories

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that's four known paths to purpose, and one of them

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is what's ailed you in life? What has what have

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you struggled within your own life that in the struggling

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of it, that you've learned a way to help other people.

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That sounds like your path. It's also mine. I had

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a meaning crisis in my twenties. That's what led me

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down the path of really studying meaning and purpose. So

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I just want to commend you for finding a way

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to take all of that struggle into not only helping yourself,

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but creating this whole path to help other people. It's amazing.

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Yeah, thank you. You know, for a very long time,

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when I was still seeing clients as a therapist within

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the at some point in the first session we would

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get into starting to explore what really matters most to you,

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and one of those key questions is always when are

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your greatest heartbreaks and what was most missing in them?

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Because those pains are what really lead us to our

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passions and that's even true for me.

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Mm hmm, so beautiful. And then the next thing I

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wanted to go to drill down deeper on is you know,

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you found your way specifically into behavioral science. So how

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did you find that niche and why is that working

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so well for you?

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Yeah? I found that niche sort of just continually chasing

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an answer to a question, which is how do we

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as people work? You know? And undergrad I studied philosophy, psychology,

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and education, and then I got a master's in counseling.

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And while I was in grad school, I found this

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book by doctor Stephen Hayes about acceptance Commitment therapy, which

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is mindfulness based, values driven very much aligns with you know,

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the work and much of the conversation we'll be having today,

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But at that time it really hadn't disseminated into the

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curricula in grad school programs for psychologists, social workers, counselors.

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So I had to travel all over the world to

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learn more about it and learn about meditation, and that

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led me to learning more and more about behavior science.

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And then when I started to then take that work

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and apply what I knew into therapy centers where I

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would work as a therapist or in schools. I would

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walk into these places and I would see the way

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people were operating, and I sort of felt the way

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I would imagine a surgeon would feel if we sent

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them back in time two hundred years ago and they

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saw people doing surgery without washing their hands. So I

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was really just chasing this question of how do we

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work and what sort of research have we gained to

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answer that question of how are humans wired? And why

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do we live the way that we do? And that

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led me through philosophy and psychology and education, and then

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really I stumbled into behavior science and fell in love

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with all of the answers and questions that really have

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been explored there through the last few decades.

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It's always so amazing to me how people find their

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way right and really what they find compelling. Another thing

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that I'm intrigued with with what you're focus on, is,

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of course, this idea of well being. And I feel

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like I really only started noticing this showing up in

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the world of work and among leaders during the pandemic.

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And I don't know if you have a different perspective

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about that, but you know, I was a made for example,

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when Gallup put out a book on well being, you know,

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after all these years of being in strengths, and so

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I thought, well, Gallups twinting something out on wellving, it

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must be something here. So I would love for you

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just to comment on where you when you feel like

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it showed up as something of import especially inside organizations

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and leaders and why did it short when it did?

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Sure, So I think for me what happened was I

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started going into these schools, and then these therapy centers,

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and then into workplaces, and I could see all the

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ways that we weren't applying what we knew in the

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behavior science were practices and processes for empowering performance. And

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so for me, it started with performance. And if you

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look at any elite sports team that is really well

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meaning professional sports teams and really high performance college teams,

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what you'll find is most of those coaches are applying

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the learnings from behavior science from the last few decades.

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And it just so happens that when you really care

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about empowering humans to do well, that means that you

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have to optimize towards well being, because, especially if you

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want to be a high performer through a season, one

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week isn't enough, you have to figure out how do

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we create sustainable high performance. And if you're a coach,

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you don't just want one season, you want multiple seasons.

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Your dream is to create a dynasty so you can

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leave a legacy behind, and we haven't been applying those

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principles at work. So what we've found is in the

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early two thousands, as tech companies really started to surge

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and become so huge and the internet came online line,

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there became bigger questions as the borders around when and

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where do we work started to erode, we had to

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really answer some questions of how are we supposed to

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manage people so they can get work done across such

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great distances within this world where it seems like these

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borders around information and content that are flowing in are

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eroading and people are getting more and more stressed, and

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we're not really sure why that's happening. But in order

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for people to perform well here, we need to make

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sure that they are well, that they are healthy enough

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to be motivated, to stay focused, to actually continually show

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up to work. So I think the problems are what

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led us to exploring well being in the workplaces and

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the best workplaces in the world that have sustainable high performance.

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They've been able to take what we've learned in the

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organizational psychology work and across all behavior science to actually

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apply them into systems, and now other workplaces are just saying, oh,

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we need to do that too, and if we want

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people to really be high performing, we have to focus

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on well being.

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You know, I find myself you and I were talking

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before we got on air that we see more and

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more of the preponderance at the convergence of some really

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great consultants, thought leaders that are really pushing the envelope

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on well being, on me, on purpose, on things like that,

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even you know, spiritual intelligence in the workplace, which I

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have the last chapter of my latest book, The Great Vitization,

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has a whole chapter devoted to that which really stakes

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to those higher values like you know, compassion and passion

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and purpose and things like that. So for me, this

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feels like it's just so obvious and natural, and yet Matt,

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there's still so much work to do in the world

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to be able to elevate the idea of well being

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and all the things that we're talking about in an organization.

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So there's so much opportunity to matter and matter more

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and make a difference.

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That's right, And I hold both a frustration and a

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compassion when I'm talking with leaders and see sort of

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the obvious solutions and processes that really just aren't being

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woven into how people operate, because ultimately, people don't know

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what they don't know. And the reality is what's happened

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to our society through the last few decades as technology

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has continued to innovate, and again those borders around and

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when we work have really transformed. We've seen this like

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continuous partial attention really expand for people. We've seen rates

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of stress skyrocket, especially since twenty twelve when the majority

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of teenagers then had a smartphone, and so the ways

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that we relate with ourselves and each other have really transformed,

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and people are just more overwhelmed than they've ever been.

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And very few kids grow up where they learn about

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how to regulate their emotions, let alone then how to

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regulate their emotions and relate well with others, And so

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you have folks that don't learn those skills that then

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as they go through manager development or as they become

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a leader in their organization, they aren't given that skills

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or understanding, and so they just don't know what they

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don't know when it comes to the skills that are

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really needed to manage people.

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Well, beautifully said Matt. And I also want to echo

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your point about having compassion for leaders. And it's a really,

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really tough job. This has got to be hard, Yeah,

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the hardest time perhaps in our history to be a

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leader because so much is expected of you and and

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workforce is incredibly discerning these days, and you've got a

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business to run and you're just trying to make things happen.

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And I really want to extend that compassion too, And

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I'm sure you feel the same way when we when

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we work with our with our with our clients, that

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that sacred space of getting to be in their lives

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where we understand and we're right there with them for

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their greatest fears, their hopes and their concerns. Can I

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actually do this and it is sacred work to get

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to do. And so I just wanted to echo what

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you said about extending the compassion and that people don't

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know what they don't know, right, That's part of our

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job is to make it accessible. One of the things

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that I thought I really love reading over your whole

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list of talks that you give, mat, I mean you

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are You've got a man. You are a man with

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a lot of message to share. And given that I

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am unschooled in positive psychology, existential psychology, developmental psychology, those

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are all my jams. I thought it was fascinating that

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you have a talk on mas logo got wrong about

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our needs? So if you talk about that perspective, what's

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missing from Maslow and the needs?

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Yeah? So, Abraham Maslow is a brilliant guy who has

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radically impacted what we know about psychology and behavior science.

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Even if folks haven't heard their name, they have come

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across his work or been impacted by behaviors that were

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inspired by his work. So really want to highlight that

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the real tragedy within Maslow's work is that it has

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become a copy of a copy of a copy, which is,

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if you really dig into Maslow's work, never in it

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has he ever created a hierarchy. That hierarchy that he

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created was from a few organizational psychologists actually and consultants

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who then wanted to make his work more accessible. And

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what you have with that triangle that puts food and

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air and shelter and money before belonging is really a

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representation of a cultural mythology at work. It was a

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projection of people taking what they believe to be true

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and imposing it and then using some of Maslow's concepts

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to really decorate it. But there's a really interesting book

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by Scott Barry KAUFMANZ. Yeah, no, amazing work. So he

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did some really interesting research around gifted and talented programs

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and children that went through there in the real markers

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for what creates a genius and the impacts of psychology

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of those sort of programs. But then he really got

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inspired by wanting to dig into Maslow and he wrote

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this whole book, and he went and he found Maslow's

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personal diaries and journals, and nowhere did he find a

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single mention of a hierarchy. So the whole point I

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make there is that we have that hierarchy wrong. That really,

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when you dig into the research from the last century,

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what is abundantly clear is that belonging is not our

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middle need, it's not our third need, it's our base

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needed to what makes us most human. For the vast

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majority of the time that Homo sapiens have been on

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this planet, we existed as hunter gatherer nomads and tribes

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of people. One man doesn't stand a chance against a lion, tiger,

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or bear, oh my, but ten might and one hundred

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certainly do. So we are deeply wired to belong and

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look for reinforcement evidence of our belonging. And when we

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can understand that, everything else that we've learned about how

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humans work suddenly falls much more into place.

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Matt, that was stunningly beautiful. Thank you for that. That

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really was I aligned with that. I had never thought

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of it that way, and I really appreciate that that perspective.

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Speaking of belonging, that's something also too, along with mattering,

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that I find to be such a wonderfully emerging concept.

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And I've had a couple of really amazing people on

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my podcast talking about belonging, including Jerry Koluna, who you

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if you've not met him before. He is a beautiful,

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beautiful soul. So all right, let's let our listeners and

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viewers just kind of percolate and chew one what you

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just shared about the centrality of belonging while we take

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our first break. I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortez, Wh've

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got on the air with Matt Schenker, who is a

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licensed professional counselor, meditation teacher and behavioral scientists who's trained

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thousands of therapists, educators, and managers on how to harness

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the greatest learning through behavioral science through the last century.

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We'll be right back, and when we come back, we'll

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talk more about what he's doing at his organization called

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matter More, as well as the wellbeing theory that he

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has discovered in his practicing. Be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a last to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at eliscortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

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a lease ALISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back to

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working on Purpose.

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Thanks for starting with us, and welcome back to Working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I'm

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dedicated to helping create a world where people realize their

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potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders that help

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them find in contribul their greatness, and we do business

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at Better's the world. I keep researching and writing my

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own books, so my last one came out in March

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of twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization, How

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activating meaning and purpose can radical in liven your business,

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and I wrote it to help leaders understand the needs

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of today's discerning workforce and then offer twenty two best

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projices to fold in your culture to create that. You

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can find my books on Amazon or my websites at

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least Coortes dot com or Gustardeshnau dot com if you

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are just now joining me. My guest is Matt Schenker.

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He's a sheet solutions architect, chief ompreating officer and co

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founder at Mattermore, where they're working to empower the future

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of work, what they call work four point zero. So here, Matt, now,

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I want to get into some of the really interesting

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work that you're doing with your team at Matamore. But

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at first I have to have you situate what you're

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doing with this empowered wellbeing theory, a transdisciplinary bio psychosocial,

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spiritual model for understanding human wellbeing that sounds so incredibly

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inclusive and amazing.

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Yes, Well, ultimately this theory was born out of a

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frustration that I had. The deeper that I went into

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the behavior science, the more questions I had about, well,

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how does Kristin Nef's concept of self compassion relate to

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stages of change theory? And how does attachment research relate

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to something like psychological flexibility? And where does motivation come in?

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And so anybody that begins their self development journey sort

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of also inevitably stumbles upon this question, which is what

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sort of concepts am I supposed to be learning about?

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Is it empathy? Is it emotional regulation? Is it mindfulness?

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Should I be meditating? Should I be reading more David Goggins?

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What should I be doing here? And part of the

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challenge is we don't really have a solid framework that

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pulls all of these things together and tethers them with

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cords that makes it all clear. And so that's what

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I've done with the empowered well being theory is pulls

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all of that together. Essentially, there are six dimensions and

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a lot of it is a tipping of the hat

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sort of to Abraham Maslow himself. Rather than having a

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pyramid hierarchy, he had something that was more like a sailboat,

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where there is a sail and there's a boat. And

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so I've done the same sort of thing. It can

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be shaped as like a hexagon, where it's this cool

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like geometric shape. But there's essentially six dimensions that have

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six core psychological drives, and there are our growth needs

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and their grounding needs, and so we've got belonging. Every

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human being is wired to seek out connection. I need

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to feel that I am seen and valued. Somewhere there

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is insight. We are story creating creatures. We are driven

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to seek out coherence, and so that dimension is we

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cultivate insight, then we are feeling creatures. We use our

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sensations to make sense of the world around us. That

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is a core intrinsic drive within us. When we cultivate

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that drive, that dimension is embodiment. I am able to

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feel and function within my body. We are also wired

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to seek out orientation where and when am I? I

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have to be able to cultivate mindfulness in order to

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have some power over my attention. And as tribal beings

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that evolved that way, we are wired to seek out autonomy.

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We need to feel powerful within our environment. And in

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order to cultivate our autonomy, we have to define what

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matters to us. We have to cultivate purpose. And then

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that six strives is we are wired to seek out

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mastery and that dimension is accomplishment. Accomplishment is the Latin

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word to fill with. And so when you understand those

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six dimensions, if you focus on those six dimensions, you

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will spiral yourself upward. You will cultivate a sense of fullness,

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you will cultivate well being in your life, and you'll

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be able to perform in whatever dimension you want to.

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That's amazing, Matt, Wow, I so align with what you've created.

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That's so beautiful, and I love the completeness of it.

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That's just astounding to me, so refreshing.

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Yeah, thank you, And I'm hoping that as I sort

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of lay that out, you can even then imagine if

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you were to throw that up on an infinite sized

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bulletin board, you could see how all those different concepts

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that we've learned about and heard about, whether it's self development,

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organizational psychology, or positive psychology, or anything in the health

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research from the last century, you could see how you

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can really mix and match and plug all of those

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in somehow within that framework. Mm hmmmmm.

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Yeah, I definitely want to learn more about what you're

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doing here, and who knows. Like we said before, maybe

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there's some other ways for us to partner. But what

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I definitely want to do next, I think this now

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makes sense. We've laid to such a great groundwork here.

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I do want to hear more about the worker doing

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it matter More. But before we even get there, you know,

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I have to ask you about the name of your organization.

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I love it, and I know it has probably many

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intended meetings, but let's let you situate why you decided

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to call it matter More.

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Sure. So, when I met my co founder, his name

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is also Matt. His name is Matthew Lazarus. When he

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and I got together, I was running three different businesses.

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I was working as a private practice therapist, I was

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traveling all over the world working as a L and

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D consultant, and I was doing a lot of speaking

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and coaching for leaders, and I was really exhausted, and

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I was seeing something across all of those spaces that

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was very similar to what my co founder was seeing,

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which is we were coming across people in their twenties, thirties, forties,

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fifties that were telling us the same story, which is essentially,

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I followed the rules, I played the game. I've built

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the big, bright, shiny life, and yet it feels hollow

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on the inside. Yes, but like they were getting achievements,

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but they weren't necessarilysarily feeling full in their lives. They

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weren't feeling like they mattered. And when you look at

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the data that really stacks up, especially through the last

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two decades, you see, especially young people, but not just

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young people, every single age group has more and more

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loneliness that is skyrocket and is at pandemic levels, and

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less and less of a sense of purpose. So we're

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lacking both belonging and purpose. We don't feel like we matter.

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And again, if our base need is to belong like

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we did in a tribe, what we are driven to

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do is to feel like we are contributing somehow, and

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so ultimately, if we do nothing else, if experience with

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our product, with our business, within any conversation with us

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helps somebody feel like they matter more in their life,

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in their workplace and their family and their relationships, that's

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success for usautiful man.

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And let me situate and share that since you brought

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the way you did so beautifully. Is when I mentioned

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00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:07.359
earlier that I found my way into the meeting and

462
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.279
purpose path through the ailing experience in my mid twenties,

463
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:13.839
what that was. And I want listeners and viewers to

464
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.119
think about this for themselves, because we need a lot

465
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:19.480
of these people that have what seems to be from

466
00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:23.200
out the external service an amazing life, but yet they

467
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:25.319
don't have that. They don't think they have an emptiness.

468
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.440
There's something missing there. And I learned that even in

469
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.079
my mid twenties, I was twenty six years old, I

470
00:24:31.079 --> 00:24:34.079
had been living in Spain and Brazil for I was

471
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:35.839
just starting the process there that I did it for

472
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:38.440
total of three years. I was going all over the

473
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.119
world and I had a living maid, chauffeur gardner. I

474
00:24:41.119 --> 00:24:43.000
didn't have a visis, I wasn't working, so I was

475
00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.960
studying and I was very grateful for all those experiences.

476
00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:49.039
But after about a year of being into that. I

477
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:53.799
found myself into a really deep depression. And what I

478
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:56.279
realized back then I didn't have the words for or

479
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:58.599
the access through the education that I had learned that

480
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:01.960
it was an existential c It was like an early

481
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:04.599
onset midlife crisis. And what I discovered is just what

482
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.839
you said, Matt, is that we humans are wired to

483
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.920
be of service to matter. And I was just consuming life.

484
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:14.240
That's all I was doing. I wasn't giving, wasn't I

485
00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:19.119
wasn't serving. I was just consuming And that's incredibly empty. Yeah,

486
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:21.240
And so I just I'll situate that so that our

487
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.960
listeners and viewers can also think about where they're sitting

488
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.400
in relation to what you're sharing and what I just

489
00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:28.759
shared for themselves, because it's so important to get clear

490
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:31.720
about where you are in that space for your own

491
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:35.440
mental health, wellbeing, vitality and even later success.

492
00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:38.279
Yeah, and at least I'm with you, you know. Like

493
00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.480
I mentioned, I spent my teenage in early adulthood as

494
00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:44.839
an addict, and so literally I took consuming as far

495
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:48.519
as I possibly could, just trying to consume anything that

496
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.240
could dull the pain of what I was feeling inside

497
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.079
that I didn't know how to hold. And the harsh

498
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.119
piece of turning that programming around is that we can't

499
00:26:02.599 --> 00:26:06.759
flip from consuming to contributing without figuring out what matters

500
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:10.680
to us. And there's all sorts of skills and experiences

501
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.359
that are part of that, but we have to be

502
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.920
able to figure out what actually matters to me? What

503
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.440
does a full life mean for me? No one can

504
00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:19.799
actually hand you that compass. You have to figure it

505
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:22.160
out for yourself, because no one can hand you a

506
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:23.559
blueprint to your own fulfillment.

507
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:29.240
Yeah, and from the vantage point of logo therapy, So

508
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.640
logo is, as you know, is Greek for meaning, and

509
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:37.559
then therapy so healing through meaning. We recognize that meaning

510
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:40.039
is our chief concern in life. It's our chief sense

511
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:43.039
of motivation and energy as well. And then we have

512
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.480
three sources of meaning available to us. But all of

513
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.720
the the all of the meaning is registered through our values.

514
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:51.839
So what you find meaningful will be different from what

515
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:54.440
I find meaningful. So what I would add to what

516
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:56.640
you just shared is that when we when we when

517
00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:58.240
we learn what it is that we value. And I

518
00:26:58.279 --> 00:27:00.319
have an exercise that to take people through experience simple

519
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.720
to discern what are your top ten values, and then

520
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.880
you also consider, as you're saying, well, what does a fulfilling,

521
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:09.920
meaningful life look like for me? Well, now is something

522
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.440
to work with. And I would say most of us

523
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:13.359
for a long long time don't have the answers of

524
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:14.039
those questions.

525
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:16.480
Yeah, in a lot of ways, you can live your

526
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.039
entire life just continually going through that exercise, and that

527
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:26.759
can be the only real source of reorientation that you

528
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:29.200
really need. And what I continually find when we work

529
00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:32.559
with organizations, it's very much the same. Most dysfunctions within

530
00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:36.480
organizations are from either a dysfunction of being able to

531
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.880
really clearly identify what matters here, what values really do

532
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:44.440
you want to have happen here, or a failure in

533
00:27:44.519 --> 00:27:47.559
being able to audit what is happening in comparison to

534
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.160
what we want to be happening. So, really, if you

535
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:53.319
can get very good at that skill of identifying within

536
00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:57.079
yourself by auditing your own experience, by taking your emotions

537
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.400
as data signaling to you what your needs are, and

538
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.160
then clarifying your values to understand your personal story for

539
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.720
how you get your needs met, then you can actually

540
00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:08.480
take that same skill set and you can turn it

541
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:10.880
towards the organizations that you're a part of, and you

542
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:13.599
can ask what do we need here to accomplish our

543
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:18.079
particular mission whoever we're generating value, and how are we

544
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.440
stacking up? What are the behaviors that are happening that

545
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:23.000
we want to continue happening, what are the ones we

546
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:25.119
might want to start happening, And what are the behaviors

547
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:26.960
you want to stop happening because of how they either

548
00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.160
serve or undermine the values of how we want to

549
00:28:30.240 --> 00:28:31.000
be acting here.

550
00:28:32.680 --> 00:28:36.680
Yes, we'll say hard to do absolutely right. And one

551
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.200
thing that I always like to echo with what you

552
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.000
just said is the importance of that unlearning because we

553
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:47.599
do have to constantly keep learning, which we have to

554
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:52.240
replace ideas, mindsets, behavior sets that no longer serve us.

555
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:54.680
And I just think that's so important to frame and

556
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:55.559
reiterate as well.

557
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.759
And what you just shared there, Yeah, and that's really

558
00:28:58.880 --> 00:29:02.920
hard to do without having hope at the end of

559
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:06.559
the tunnel. Grief is a really dark tunnel to move through,

560
00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.720
and any behavioral pattern that we're letting go of we

561
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.519
have because it serves some sort of function, and that

562
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.599
means it's going to be kind of hard to let

563
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:18.279
go of it. It's been anchored into this identity. We've

564
00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:20.960
seen ourselves doing that behavior, and so in order to

565
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:22.920
let go of a behavior, you have to have some

566
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:25.160
sort of hope at the end that pulls you out

567
00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:28.200
of that tunnel towards the new behavior. And that's where

568
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.880
again defining your values in your purpose really become crucial.

569
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.000
Mm hmm, totally agree with that. So it was all

570
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:37.960
of that that we just spoke about was really the

571
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:40.039
answer to why did you call your company matter more?

572
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:40.440
So?

573
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:42.880
Now tell us what are you doing at matter more?

574
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:48.519
Yeah, so said really simply, the modern workplace is a

575
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:53.240
data rich platform and so so much communication happens digitally,

576
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:56.240
whether it's on Slack, on email, or on calls, and

577
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:59.079
that gives us a very unique possibility. We can now

578
00:29:59.240 --> 00:30:01.920
harness that data to better answer that question what is

579
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.759
happening here, so that we can better evaluate what do

580
00:30:04.839 --> 00:30:08.960
we want to have happen. And so ultimately what we've

581
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.640
started is we've built out an AI manager copilot. So

582
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.359
every manager that has one on ones over say Zoom,

583
00:30:14.680 --> 00:30:16.400
they can add a note taker just like any other

584
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.599
AI note taker, and it will give them summary and

585
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:21.519
action items, but it will also give them precise feedback

586
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:23.559
based on who they are, what matters to them, what

587
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.160
skills they need, based on who they are, their role

588
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:28.920
in their organization, and then they're able to also share

589
00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.200
that data upward so that everyone throughout an organization can

590
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:35.440
get some visibility on what skills are happening and progressing,

591
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:39.039
so that coaching or learning development don't have to be

592
00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:43.200
gauzy and ambiguous and unmeasurable. Instead, just like we've had

593
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:48.839
things like TikTok create incredibly personalized entertainment experiences, we can

594
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:53.680
make learning an incredibly personalized experience that meets us within

595
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:55.960
the flow of work. And that's what we're building.

596
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:01.440
Amazing, absolutely amazing. Let our listeners and viewers think about

597
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.039
that for a second, maybe even check out your site,

598
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:05.880
Madamore dot ai. While we take our last break, I'm

599
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:08.279
your host, doctor Elise Cortes. We'll go on the air

600
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:11.880
with Matt Schenker, who is a licensed professor, professional counselor,

601
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:15.799
meditation teacher, and behavior scientist and who has trained thousands

602
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.319
of therapists, educators, and managers and how to harness the

603
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.119
greatest learnings from behavior of science from the last century.

604
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:22.759
I've been getting into some of the work that he

605
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.319
and his team are doing at Matamore. After the break,

606
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:28.079
we're going to also drill a little bit more deeper

607
00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.759
into the leadership crisis and AI is rolling helping to

608
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:31.720
solve it. We'll be right back.

609
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:51.079
Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

610
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.960
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

611
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.319
visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

612
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:02.759
inspired leadership and meaning fuse cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

613
00:32:02.839 --> 00:32:05.799
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

614
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.799
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit

615
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.000
her at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

616
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:20.559
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

617
00:32:20.680 --> 00:32:24.200
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

618
00:32:24.359 --> 00:32:27.079
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

619
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:32.119
to a lease a LISEE at eliscortes dot com. Now

620
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:34.079
back to working on Purpose.

621
00:32:39.319 --> 00:32:41.000
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working

622
00:32:41.039 --> 00:32:43.920
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. I mentioned

623
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:45.920
in the first break that my last book came out

624
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:46.359
in March.

625
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:48.119
Three.

626
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:51.400
It's called The Great revitalization, how activating any purpose canretically

627
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:54.319
eligator business. I wanted to add that I gave you

628
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:56.839
a three page assessment that you can download off of

629
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:59.880
my website to assess the extent to which your organization

630
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.599
is meeting the needs of today's discerning workforce. So you

631
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:05.319
can find it at gustodashnow dot com. It's on the

632
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:07.559
homepage at the bottom. Just scroll down and you'll be

633
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:09.519
able to get it from there if you are just

634
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:11.759
now joining us. My guest is Matt Schenkerk. He's the

635
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:15.279
chief solutions architect, chief operating officer and co founder at

636
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.240
matter More, where they're working to empower the future of work,

637
00:33:18.319 --> 00:33:22.000
what they call work four point zero. So a couple

638
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:23.559
of things that I want to dive into here. You

639
00:33:23.759 --> 00:33:26.960
mentioned a little bit about the leadership part of the organizations,

640
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:29.799
and I'm very very curious to hear your perspective on

641
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:35.119
what you refer as to as the leadership crisis. Yeah.

642
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:39.599
I mean, it's a real tragedy of the modern age

643
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:41.720
that we know so much, yet we use so little

644
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:45.440
of what we know, and that's really at the heart

645
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:49.039
of the crisis that we have today right now, at

646
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.839
this moment, in time. We're living in an overwhelm crisis.

647
00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:55.960
That's the fertile ground of everything that our technology has

648
00:33:56.039 --> 00:33:58.720
innovated so rapidly, particularly over the last two and a

649
00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:01.680
half centuries, that socio culturally, we have not been able

650
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:04.440
to adapt how we live with that technology to keep pace.

651
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.000
What that means is we are tragically overwhelmed, which is

652
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:12.719
why loneliness is skyrocketing. It's why mental health disorder, addiction,

653
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.239
deaths of despair, mass violence are all skyrocketing. People are overwhelmed,

654
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:20.159
and what that means is what we need more than

655
00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:23.960
ever are leaders that can take responsibility of the systems

656
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.039
and organizations that we are a part of to help

657
00:34:26.119 --> 00:34:28.400
us cope with that overwhelm. And we have been trying

658
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:33.280
to invest in developing leaders. We've seen spending on leadership

659
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.960
development continue to go up year over year through the

660
00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:39.840
last twenty years, and yet satisfaction with one's manager at

661
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:43.119
work continues to go down, which means again, it's another

662
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:46.199
example of not using what we know in the right

663
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.960
ways at the right times. And so that's the real

664
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:51.679
crisis that we need leaders more than ever, and yet

665
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.559
people don't experience that they have real leaders that they

666
00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.679
can trust. We've seen since the Nixon years trust and

667
00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.519
institutions has gone down into the right. So people are

668
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:03.440
trusting institutions less and less. They're feeling more and more

669
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:06.559
dissatisfied with their leaders despite the fact that we're spending

670
00:35:06.639 --> 00:35:07.840
more on leadership development.

671
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.440
Very crisply delineated. Now, you had already talked to us

672
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:18.119
before we went on the break about how your model

673
00:35:18.280 --> 00:35:22.880
you're offering helps managers capture some of the sumer information

674
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.840
and data, etc. To be able to personalize training. Sure,

675
00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:27.360
but I wanted to see if there was more you

676
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.599
had to say about how AI's role can help solve

677
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:32.840
this leadership crisis. There's more to it than what you

678
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:33.360
already said.

679
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:35.679
Yeah, when we think of ourselves as one example of

680
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:38.840
how to harness AI to really try and solve this

681
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:41.800
massive problem. And so if we zoom out a little bit,

682
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:44.719
our core thesis that we really started with was, well,

683
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:48.920
a question what's causing all of this overwhelm? And again,

684
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:53.000
like I mentioned, you know, our technologies innovated, innovated so

685
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:57.480
fast up until you know, the nineteen seventies, there was

686
00:35:57.519 --> 00:35:59.760
a real limit to how much content you could you

687
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:04.039
have access to that you could consume, and nowadays we're

688
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:07.119
sort of drowning in content. Any person today that has

689
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.599
Wi Fi access has access to more content than any

690
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.360
human being throughout history, no matter how rich they were.

691
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:15.800
We have access to so much content that any one

692
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:17.920
human could sit down and spend their entire life and

693
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:22.000
wouldn't consume all of it. And that content being deployed

694
00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.679
by the largest companies in the world to compete for

695
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:28.800
our attention is contributing massively to this overwhelm. So what

696
00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:33.880
we need is a recreation of structure in our lives. Well,

697
00:36:33.920 --> 00:36:36.000
how do we do that? How do we figure out

698
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:41.280
how to move through all this communication technology? Well, for

699
00:36:41.400 --> 00:36:44.760
too long, we focused on innovation of our technology to

700
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:48.360
be about speed of communication, speed and spread, and that's

701
00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:50.000
really what it was about for a very long time.

702
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:52.280
And what we've learned now is that that's not enough.

703
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:55.880
In the nineties in the early two thousands, we heard

704
00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:01.039
tech innovators telling us about how the Internet software was

705
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:04.320
going to bring freedom and well being to everyone because

706
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:06.280
we're going to be able to communicate so far so

707
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.719
fast that we're going to create more and more convenience,

708
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.440
and with that convenience, people will have more free time,

709
00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:13.880
and with that free time, people will naturally make their

710
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:17.199
lives better. But that's not true. We have to design

711
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:20.440
technology to help us in every single aspect of our

712
00:37:20.519 --> 00:37:22.320
life from the way that it is designed at its

713
00:37:22.360 --> 00:37:26.440
foundations to help us live in ways that are well

714
00:37:26.559 --> 00:37:30.800
for us. And so AI is this opportunity because suddenly

715
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:35.199
we have a technology that can help us reorganize our

716
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.960
relationship with all of this information that we're drowning in.

717
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:42.079
And so that's the big of Oh wow. AI can

718
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.800
do all of these things, and it can do that

719
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:46.639
in very specific ways. One thing I would love is

720
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.239
to not have to keep track of a thousand passwords

721
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:52.159
for websites, where then I have to pressure password at

722
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:54.760
least once a week. Great, that's something AI can solve.

723
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.480
We can have more integrations between platforms so I don't

724
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:59.559
have to have twelve tabs open just to do my

725
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:03.679
job as a salesperson. And so getting to cut down

726
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:05.920
on the amount of spaces that we pay attention, getting

727
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:08.599
to bring more autonomy into the algorithms that we shape

728
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:13.559
that then really inform how information is distributed to us.

729
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:17.239
Those are just two examples, but the core opportunity here

730
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.880
is finally we have a technology that can help us

731
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.400
reorganize what is causing our overwhelm.

732
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.159
I really appreciate that because overwhelm is definitely a huge

733
00:38:28.199 --> 00:38:30.599
part of today's life. It really is, and you've really

734
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:34.840
distilled it so succinctly as to what that issue is.

735
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:38.800
I'm wondering next, then, I think this might actually fit.

736
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:40.880
You have another talk that I thought was interesting. I

737
00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:43.159
think it might situate nicely into what you just now shared.

738
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:48.360
It's called organizational mindfulness Beyond the self onto the system.

739
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:54.159
Yeah. Yeah, So ultimately everything I've talked about, if somebody's listening,

740
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.360
the next question is, Okay, well what do I do?

741
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:00.760
What can I do differently? What does this look like

742
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:05.480
really practically? And that's where organizational mindfulness comes in, where

743
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:07.920
we talk about taking the concepts of empowered well being

744
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:11.480
and creating an empowered organization or being an empowered leader,

745
00:39:11.920 --> 00:39:15.239
and so really simple frameworks that again easy to say,

746
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:19.440
hard to do, but one simple way is to think

747
00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.360
about an organizational system. And that could be anything. It

748
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:25.360
could be a classroom, it could be a family, it

749
00:39:25.360 --> 00:39:27.679
could be a workplace. I work mostly with workplaces, so

750
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.920
let's go there. You're at a workplace, Ultimately, any business

751
00:39:31.159 --> 00:39:34.599
is a collection of people communicating and collaborating to create

752
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.519
value for another group of people, and so the ways

753
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:41.360
that we collaborate matter. For far too long, we have

754
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:45.159
managed people and created ways of collaborating that focus on

755
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:50.079
short term results at the expense of sustainable, regenerative performance.

756
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:53.119
We don't see this with elite sports teams because they

757
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:56.440
have understood that that actually undermines their long term success.

758
00:39:56.960 --> 00:40:01.079
So if you want to have more sustainable, if you

759
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:03.639
actually care about the wellbeing of your people, you take

760
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:06.880
these concepts and you apply them. And there's three principles, purpose,

761
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:11.519
processes and people skills. Can you communicate the purpose of

762
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:14.159
what you're doing and why it matters to you? And

763
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.519
can you understand what drives each of the people why

764
00:40:17.559 --> 00:40:19.920
are they there to work there? Can you connect who

765
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:22.280
they are to the work that you're doing and help

766
00:40:22.320 --> 00:40:26.039
them feel recognized and acknowledged for that. And then people skills,

767
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:28.880
can you show up with people in ways that build

768
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:31.360
trust through all of your touch points, which helps to

769
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:34.000
expand their window of tolerance of how much stress that

770
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.679
they can actually handle so that they can do creative

771
00:40:36.719 --> 00:40:40.519
and difficult work and so information can flow throughout the organization,

772
00:40:40.639 --> 00:40:44.079
like every healthy organization needs. And can you build processes

773
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:48.480
that help to optimize that regulation, that allow for recovery,

774
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.360
not just optimize for people working like their foot is

775
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:53.719
glued to the gas pedal. And so you focus on

776
00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.239
those three pieces, you can build an empowered culture. Again

777
00:40:56.639 --> 00:40:57.760
easy to say, how to do?

778
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:03.039
Oh, just such good stuff, such good stuff. Okay, now

779
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:04.719
what I want to get to And you may have

780
00:41:04.760 --> 00:41:07.679
been speaking about this throughout the show, but since we

781
00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:10.360
I've now introduced this a couple of times, and how

782
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:14.079
I've talked about you situate for us about what it

783
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:15.760
is creating work four point zero.

784
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:19.519
Sure, so work one point zero is the majority of

785
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:24.360
human history, agrarian life. Before that, we were nomads, you know,

786
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.039
and then suddenly we really developed a whole lot of

787
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:29.760
knowledge about how do we grow things in a particular area.

788
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:32.559
Before we had agriculture, we had to keep moving because

789
00:41:32.599 --> 00:41:34.840
if you use up all the resources, now suddenly can't

790
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.840
stay alive. Once agriculture got involved, then you saw whole

791
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:42.000
economies around that, around farming, and then people that were

792
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:45.079
making supplies for the farmers, and then trade really started

793
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.960
to explode, and then you have the industrial age, which

794
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.119
is Work two point zero. And you have the digital

795
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:52.119
age with the birth of the Internet, which is Work

796
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.400
three point zero. What's important now is that we're in

797
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:58.000
a time of transition. We have three massive supercycles happening

798
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.559
right now. With the invention of with the surge of

799
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.559
the Internet of things, the datification of everything, whether it's

800
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:08.960
smart watch, smart mattress, or a neuralink going into your brain,

801
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:11.400
we have access to more data and that is surging

802
00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:13.199
right now. The innovations we've had in the last few

803
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.440
years are ridiculous. And the third is well being science,

804
00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:19.519
what we know about behavior and biology and the science

805
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:21.840
that we've uncovered through the last few years. And those

806
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:25.679
are three converging supercycles amidst a society that is more

807
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:27.920
lonely and overwhelmed than we have ever been. And so

808
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.519
we're in this weird time of transition, and so Work

809
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:32.880
four point zero we call the Empowerment Age because that's

810
00:42:32.920 --> 00:42:35.519
the optimist take. Ultimately, we don't know what Work four

811
00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:38.039
point zero could be. It might end up being something

812
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.280
really sad and tragic. We certainly hope not, and we

813
00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:42.880
don't believe so because we meet so many people like

814
00:42:43.039 --> 00:42:45.039
you and I were just talking that are doing such

815
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.519
amazing work that are trying to take what we know

816
00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:50.239
to build better systems. And so what we do is

817
00:42:50.440 --> 00:42:52.400
we have conversations with as many people as we can

818
00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:54.719
who we think are doing that work, and we're trying

819
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.920
to build tools that help to empower organizations and leaders

820
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.920
to be part of building the our work four point

821
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:02.119
zero that we believe is possible.

822
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:05.239
That's I'm right there with you in those trenches.

823
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:05.480
Matt.

824
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:07.760
This is so great, and I appreciate how you delineated

825
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.119
the history. It's so interesting. I've had that. I've seen

826
00:43:10.159 --> 00:43:13.320
that done in other perspectives and other lenses. But I

827
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:15.559
love the idea of the empowered workforce. That's also what

828
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.400
I'm out to bring about.

829
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:20.800
Thank you, Oh, thank you. One other thing I'll say

830
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:23.440
on that is, you know, sort of a hot take

831
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:28.159
that I sometimes have is humans have always worked right,

832
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:31.159
and we will always work. That doesn't have to be

833
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:33.559
a dirty thing. That if you talk to an artist

834
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:35.480
or a musician and they want to share what they've

835
00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:37.400
made with you, you know what they say, Hey, check

836
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:40.280
out my work. Work can be something that helps us

837
00:43:40.320 --> 00:43:42.360
become more and more of ourselves. It doesn't have to

838
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.039
be a place that is cold and gray and cubicled.

839
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:47.239
I completely agree.

840
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:49.679
In fact, when I'm out speaking about this very topic,

841
00:43:50.239 --> 00:43:52.599
I position that you know, I was raised by first

842
00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:55.440
farmers and then entrepreneurs, restaurant entrepreneurs.

843
00:43:55.679 --> 00:43:55.880
Wow.

844
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.119
And what I was raised with, Matt is and this

845
00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:00.199
is what I'm helping. This is what I'm also to

846
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:03.599
create in organizations help them create, is that work was

847
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.000
never something that you know you had to do. It

848
00:44:06.119 --> 00:44:08.199
was a way of living, it was a way of being.

849
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:11.719
It's a way of serving the world. It's how you

850
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:15.559
live your life really in many ways. So finding finding

851
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:18.159
ways to make that an optimal experience that makes you

852
00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:21.440
feel that you matter, that you've contributed something that's important

853
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:24.599
to you is the game that I'm out to play,

854
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:26.920
and I'm happy to be in the trenches with you

855
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:29.199
doing it as well. My friend. This is just so

856
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:32.280
riveting what you're doing, and I think your approach to

857
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.119
adding adding AI into all this is just so smart

858
00:44:36.159 --> 00:44:40.000
and timely and perfect. Maybe two things before we go

859
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:43.280
our separate ways here on this one is what would

860
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.800
you really like to see, you know, in terms of

861
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:49.320
you talk about the empowered workplace, empower workforce, what does

862
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.519
the ideal world look like for you when we've solved

863
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:55.039
what we've had to solve and we do business the

864
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:56.039
way we really want to do it.

865
00:44:57.119 --> 00:45:01.159
Yeah, I think of one building better bridges between how

866
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:05.599
we teach and learn from birth to death, and really

867
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:09.519
making better bridges between schools and workplaces so that we

868
00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:12.400
can take everything that we know about how we help

869
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:15.280
people perform and we implement it into how we design

870
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:17.599
all of those systems. And to me, when I get

871
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:20.719
really granular in workplaces, what that looks like is we

872
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:24.159
use the best of our technology to bring out the

873
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:28.159
best in people, not just to push things as fast

874
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:30.559
as we possibly can, and we're not just focused on

875
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.519
short term results, but we actually ask the question of

876
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.239
how can we use all of the resources that we

877
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:40.079
have at our disposal to create immense value and whatever

878
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.960
our mission is in ways that also help the people

879
00:45:43.360 --> 00:45:47.079
here become more of who they want to be. And

880
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.239
my dream is that we turn every workplace into a

881
00:45:50.320 --> 00:45:52.920
place that asks that question and has the tools and

882
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.400
the knowledge edge to be able to explore and answer

883
00:45:56.440 --> 00:45:58.440
that question specific to what their business is.

884
00:45:58.719 --> 00:46:05.320
I'm totally and called those places destination workplaces. So the

885
00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:07.440
next thing I want to take you to really quickly

886
00:46:07.559 --> 00:46:10.559
is that if could you share just maybe one example

887
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:13.480
of a leader or organization that you've worked with and

888
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:16.039
just you know, with how you've helped steward their journey,

889
00:46:16.119 --> 00:46:17.599
and like say, in a minute.

890
00:46:17.400 --> 00:46:20.440
Or so, sure, one really powerful example. There was a

891
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:24.719
medical AI company that began using our product and we

892
00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:26.760
did a few trainings with them to really help the

893
00:46:27.199 --> 00:46:30.199
managers understand sort of what they were looking at and

894
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:33.679
then really helped build some skills and understanding. But then

895
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:36.159
what was really amazing was the feedback that they were getting.

896
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:40.280
In particularly this one team, which was their sales team,

897
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:44.519
saw how recognition was distributed for themselves. So these managers

898
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:46.639
got to see that there were some people on their

899
00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:48.639
team they were delivering a lot of recognition too, and

900
00:46:48.719 --> 00:46:51.079
not a whole lot of others. And what we actually

901
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:54.559
did was by giving them specific examples of how they

902
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:58.559
could be delivering recognition better, more authentically, more timely, and

903
00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.400
more relevant ways for the players on their team. One

904
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:04.199
we saw recognition go up by ten, so they were

905
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:08.360
recognizing delivering that positive reinforcement ten times more than the

906
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:11.920
quorder before we started working with them, and we saw

907
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:13.880
the results go up by five hundred percent that quarter,

908
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.800
and so we see this impact really meaningfully and that

909
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:20.519
those are real business results we're talking about. And all

910
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:23.719
of those people also reported higher levels of trust with

911
00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:26.760
their leader, and that leader reported less stress, and so

912
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:29.039
that's a win in my book. And I'll also highlight

913
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:32.400
that that recognition behavior so far seems to be the

914
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.239
one that when we work with employees, that's the one

915
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:37.199
that they consistently call for more.

916
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.119
What a beautiful finish, Matt, And that is just extraordinary work.

917
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:46.320
Talk about mattering more. That is wonderful. I want to

918
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:48.639
give you the chance to close the conversation, as you like, say,

919
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.679
in maybe twenty seconds, what would you like to live

920
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:52.079
our listeners and viewers with.

921
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:55.360
Really it's a message of hope that right now, no

922
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:58.079
matter how you feel about the world, we have a

923
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.199
huge call of opportunity. We needeople to step up as leaders,

924
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:03.800
to take responsibility for the relationships that they are a

925
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.440
part of, to help empower people to be able to

926
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:10.079
live fuller, to feel more recognized, to have access to

927
00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:13.159
more trust so that we can solve the greatest challenges

928
00:48:13.199 --> 00:48:15.800
and crises that face us. And we know everything that

929
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:18.239
we need to. It's a matter of pulling together with

930
00:48:18.400 --> 00:48:21.159
people and using what we know works, and there are

931
00:48:21.159 --> 00:48:22.960
people out there doing that and you can be one

932
00:48:23.000 --> 00:48:23.519
of those people.

933
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:28.320
Beautiful finish, Matt. I am so grateful to know owe

934
00:48:28.360 --> 00:48:31.199
you and to share your work with viewers across the world.

935
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:32.760
Thank you so much for being on working on Purpose.

936
00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:34.159
Thank you so much for having me, and great to

937
00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:34.559
know you too.

938
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.039
Thank you listeners and viewers. You are going to want

939
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:38.960
to learn more about Matt Shanker and the working and

940
00:48:39.039 --> 00:48:41.400
his team are doing it matter More to empower the

941
00:48:41.480 --> 00:48:45.920
future of work, so visit their website It's Mattermore dot AI.

942
00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:48.840
Last week, if you missed the live show, you can

943
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:51.239
always catch a be recorded podcast. We were on air

944
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:55.840
with doctor Josi Amrem. He's a dedicated distinguished psychologist, an

945
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:59.760
executive coach catering to CEOs, entrepreneurs and other influential leaders,

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and a pioneer researcher in the field of spiritual intelligence.

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We talked about his new book, Spiritually Intelligent Leadership, How

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to Inspire by Being Inspired, which aligns with much of

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my message and the work that I do to develop

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inspirational leaders. Next week will be on the area Christopher Wung, Michaelson,

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and Jennifer Tosti Carras talking about their book is Showing

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Work Worth It? How to think about meaningful work. See

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you there and remember that work is inspiring. An educational

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way to be able to live your life and be

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able to realize your potential. And I will see you

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next week for another nourishing conversation. Let's Work on Purpose.

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We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

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tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

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each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create

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a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion

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performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

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meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work

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on Purpose.