The Promise of Warrior Compassion: The New Frontier for Healing, Love, and Connection for Men

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show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

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FOURCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache
for meaning and purpose at work, to

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contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part

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of an organization that inspires them and
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential.

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Business can be such a force for
good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance
and inspiration to help usher in this

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world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor

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Elise Cortes. Welcome back to the
Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning

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again this week. Great to have
you. This program has been on air

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since February of twenty fifteen. It
is my pride and joy. I'm happy

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to have you with me for for
this episode. I'm your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes, joining you live from
Dallas, Texas, which is home base

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for me. If we have not
met yet, you don't know me.

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I'm a management consultant, organizational logo
therapist, speaker and author. My team

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and I at Elise Cortes and Associates
help companies to enliven and fortify their operations

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by articulating their purpose in building inspirational
leaders and cultures activated by meeting in purpose

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to turn those companies from a flatlane
EKG to a vibrant destination workplace. There

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people are intrinsically motivated to perform at
their best, grown to their fuller potential,

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and are committed to stay in dynamic
deliver on the company's mission. You

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can learn more about us and how
we can work together at Eliscortes dot com.

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Now getting into today's program, we
have with us Sean Harvey, the

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Chief Compassion Officer and founder of Warrior
Compassion Men's Studio. His work in personal

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organization on societal transformation is inspired by
twenty five years of organization developing, consulting,

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development consulting, and his work as
an interfaith minister, where he co

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founded Project Compassion, a national initiative
to deepen compassion in police departments. He's

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known for his healing work with men
in hyper masculine systems. Today we're talking

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about his new book, Warrior Compassion, Unleashing the Healing Power of Men.

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He joined you today from Philadelphia.
Sean, Welcome back to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks for having me back. It's
great to be here. You know

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I'm a huge fan, right I
told you before. You know you can

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run for me, but you can't
hide from me. Right. I've picked

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that up a couple of times,
So I think we're good on that phone.

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You get good. Okay, Well
let me tell you us for our

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viewers, let me hold up the
beautiful book that you created. I say

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this often, Sean, when I'm
talking to Most of my show is authors.

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It is harder. But this might
be good news for you. What

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you did in creating this book is
actually harder than bringing a child into the

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world. I know I've done both, just so you know already. Then

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okay, check that off. Check
that off. So for our listeners,

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and viewers who don't know you the
way that I do. Chan Lett,

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how about just a brief sort of
sketch of who you are, just quickly,

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of course, you know, I
love the fact that you're an interfaith

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minister, which you talked about fore
on air. You gotta say a little

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something about your two word alight,
Eileen Fisher. You know you started on

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Wall Street and consulting. Just just
give us, like a high, high

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sketch of this man who's in front
of us. Please. You know,

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when I get asked this question often
like just to start with, I'm a

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bunny dad, So I love that
about your book. I didn't know this.

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I'm a rabbit educator and I've have
I think I've heard about ten rabbits,

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five Fosters, and five that I've
owned myself. And so that just

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gives a juxtaposition of the work I
do. It does and so as you,

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I often say, I'm brought into
the most hyper masculine cultures and systems

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and organizations possible, be it police, military, defense, work I've done

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with white nationalists and far right extremists, with the government, with finance tech,

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and really coming into to deepen compassion
and work with men around soul healing.

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What led me here was my It
was really at my fortieth birthday.

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My birthday present to me was I
was a consultant on Wall Street and on

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my fortieth birthday I walked in the
CEO's office and said, you know,

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I've I've lost my heart and my
soul on the job, and I resigned

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as my birthday president. It just
happened. The two came together the same

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day, and then within two weeks
so the opportunity to work at Island Fisher

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came along. And you know,
there there were many, many highlights and

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many pivotal moments. But I think
the probably the most pivotal moment that changed

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the directory of my life was my
first day after I had gone through an

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eight month interview process. On that
first day, my two bosses sat me

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down and they said these words,
Sean, we want to acknowledge and honor

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the fact that you have proven yourself
in the interview process. We now want

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you to stop proving yourself and learn
how to be who you actually are.

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When you interview with us, you
showed us your heart, and you showed

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us your polish. We hired you
for your heart, and we want to

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see less of your polish And you
just said, what a gift. And

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the gift that I always name it
as is permission permission to go on a

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journey to discover who I was.
And I think the essence of my book

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is helping men based on the lessons
I've learned and experiences I've gone through,

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taking out the kernels of of what
did I experience on the journey and what

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really helped me in my healing process
and the permission to be able to do

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it and the permission to explore it
and take the risks. Okay, so

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two things to dive into that really
quick. First, listeners and viewers,

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I want to call that if you
do not know the company, Eileen Fisher,

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you need to check them out.
I'm not quite sure how you would

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call them, but I would call
them a socially conscious fashion company. And

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what I like about that, listeners
and viewers, is I want you just

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to check out just what you can
do. The force of good that business

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can really be. I mean,
they are putting forth to improve the lives

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of their people that come to work
for them, all of their stakeholders.

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It is so beautiful. So I
want to just say that, and then

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the second thing is we must hear
it. Just a bit more about the

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bunnies. I think it's quite interesting
that you are able to so peacefully connect

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with, as you put it in
your book, Pray animals, bunnies are

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prey animals. See a little bit
more about the significance of the bunny in

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your life. Why are you a
bunny, Dad? Well, I think

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I'm an accidental bunny dad. I
think it was more circumstance. And when

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we got our first rabbit, actually
we got two rabbits, and my ex

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boyfriend and I we we'd look up
this Shakespearean character book and we named our

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two rabbits Hamlet and Ophelia. And
Ophelia they were both sick. Hamlet died

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within seven days. A Feeler survived. She actually lived to be twelve years

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old. And she was sort of
this mix between a dog and a cat.

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But I think one of the things
that I, you know, a

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prey animal. And I have so
many friends who are ech wine coaches or

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or work with horses. Yes,
there's something about the energy that they sense

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that what I found was the quieter
that I became, the calmer, that

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I became the more playful, the
bunny would become I love that. So

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they were always reacting to my energy. So if I was hyper, they

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would shut down. If I was
calm, they would they would light up.

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M h. And so you know, I get the sense that that

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many animals just consents, and so
I think that that inner species connection is

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so powerful and often and indicative of
a reflection or mire for us. Ultimately,

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I think everything that we're going to
talk about this work is about what

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are the mirrors to show us around
humanity? Yes, so beautiful, Thank

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you, Sean. That was totally
worth the price of admission to go further

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down that path. Okay, So
what I want to do next to showcase

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the incredible work that you're doing with
men, I just want to read a

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short little passage from the from an
early part of your book and have you

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speak to that, because it really
speaks to the importance of your work and

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the promise of it. So you
say in your book today, men suffering

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in silence is a stark reality perpetuating
many men's de wounds and emotional struggles,

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hindering their well being and preventing them
from receiving the support they need. It

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is time to break the cycle of
silent suffering and create a culture that encourages

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open dialogue, empathy, and compassion
for men's health and emotional health. By

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addressing the plight of men suffering in
silence, we can pave the way for

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healing, growth and a more compassionate
society that supports the wellbeing of all individuals,

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regardless of gender. I'm in for
that, John, I'm in for

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that m You know, it's so
much of the as you know, I'm

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sure you definitely know this, so
much of the writing process. You're really

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channeling, yes. And so some
days I get quoted back what I wrote,

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and I'm like, oh, who
wrote that? It sounds pretty good?

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That sounds pretty good, And that
happens. That happens so many so

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often these days. But the whole
book was really dedicated when I thought about

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who is my muse, Who is
who is the man I'm trying to reach?

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You know, it's the man who's
suffering in silence? Yeah, And

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we don't, you know, when
we were coming up with the name of

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the book, you know, at
first, the ted talk that I that

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I did in twenty twenty one,
it's called Compassion makes the warrior. I

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thought that was going to be the
title of the book. The folks at

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Georgetown, Yeah, they weren't.
So they weren't so keen on that where

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I was writing my book, and
I said, what we could call it

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compassionate warrior And they suggested, or
what about warrior compassion? You know,

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and and the person who suggests,
he'said, I'm your target audience. I

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would pick that up more than compassionate
lawyer. Started to really sit with that,

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and I started to make the distinction
that not every man is going to

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want to be a compassionate warwrier.
It's an identity we're asking, and I

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think in society today, we're asking
so many men to take on so many

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different roles and identities. And what
became more accessible was what if we thought

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of or compassion is energy that is
within that is accessible to every man if

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he is courageous enough to look beyond
the protective layers he's created and through the

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conditioning that's helped him back from his
authentic self m H. And the compassion

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that's required to look at all aspects
of oneself, the good, the bad,

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the ugly, the anger, the
fear, and most importantly the shame

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that holds men back from actually being
able to access their truth. So wary

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or compassion in an essence when when
you as you read through the book,

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there's so many statistics, and I
think anyone who's writing a men's book today

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will will give any number of statistics
to show the plight of men where men

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are today. And I think,
you know, as opposed to trying to

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fix it, it's which I think
is often the adage, and I think

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it's a very masculin approach. So
let's fix the problem, and a more

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feminine approach is more we could heal
the wounds. Yes, and and and

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I always say this isn't about fixing
a problem. This is and also it's

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not fixing progress. I think what
so many men here today is you have

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to change because you're broken or something's
broken or something. Yes, that's right.

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I think it's that big fat label, right. And if we know

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anything about men, the moment you
tell a man to do something, he's

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gonna be like, well, you
know, just you know, the automatic

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resistance will come out right for many
men. But if we take a different

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approach and say, you know what, many men are suffering? Many men

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when when you actually present in front
of them the ways men are suffering,

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and here the ways men are suffering. They can often see themselves in it.

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And when you extend it in the
ta not a demand or a mandate,

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men will often be able to start
to say, you know what,

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I might be wounded too. Yeah, and that's that's the And I think

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another another part of this is a
number of men will often think they can

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go to loone or they'll just work
through it, or they'll just get get

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through it. But they what they
often feelt. It realizes if you if

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you just, if you just let
it go, it's going to stick around

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and stick. Yeah, it can
be worse than you ever imagined, the

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ways that it shows up, in
the way that it comes out. So

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to be able to help men just
acknowledge the suffering, to be with them

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in the suffering, and to say, and here are some ways that might

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be able to help you to come
out of the suffering. Mm hmm okay,

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So two of the things on that
So part of why I'm such a

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fan of your work, you know, I of course, as you know,

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I am out to really help continue
to evangelize consciousness in cultures and leadership

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organizations so that more people can experience
what you got to experience at Eileen Fisher.

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You know that they are transformed in
the work that they do and by

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a conscious supportive culture and leadership,
which just beautiful. And so it occurs

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to me that if you can really
help more men be able to confront their

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wounds and heal and they themselves then
can feel much more. Where they're more

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healthy, they're more balanced, more
centered, their immediate relationships start to immediately

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improve. As you talk about in
your book, their connection to their families

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starts to improve. The dog gets
kicked less, you know, the rabbit

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gets petted more right, and then
that cascades into the organizations they work for,

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how they lead, how they manage, et cetera. There's such a

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beautiful ripple effect that your work has
to do. So I want to That's

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why I wanted to have you on
the program Shop. I think you are

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sitting on such a powerful lever here
and on the other side of that,

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what I want to resences. Yet, what you talk about in your book

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and I can relate to, is
it usually takes something really a horrible wound,

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you know, an awful, ugly
divorce, a horrible bankruptcy, major

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illness, or something to really crack
open the need for men and women too

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for that matter, but certainly for
men to start to go, oh hang

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on here, I think I need
some help. Something needs to go,

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needs to be done differently. So
if you could speak a little bit too,

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you know how your work will help
men not have to go through and

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sort of those things in order to
start that transformation healing process, you know.

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I think in twelve stuff they often
say, you know, you're you

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start to get sober once you hit
rock bottom. Yeah, question is how

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is that bottom? Yeah? You
know, And I think it's something similar.

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I mean a lot of times this
is this is not an awareness.

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This is not right. It's not
not in our awareness, not in the

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romal possibility or the stigma either.
The stigma is so great that you couldn't

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even imagine, or your defenses are
so great you can't even acknowledge that you

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may need something. So I think
my hope is that the book showcases,

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you know where, showcases different situations
that men can see themselves in, or

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they can see themselves in the book
in some way to say, oh,

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yeah, that's what I've been struggling
with another piece, you know, I

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start with embracing vulnerability and finding community
of safety, and finding safety in the

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community of men. One of the
things we often do as men is we'll

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go for emotional support from women.
We go for nurturing care from women.

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It feels very different when another man
offers that. Yes, I can imagine,

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And it's often, you know,
and often the conversation around our relationships

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with our fathers often comes in in
terms of what do we not get from

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our dads that we're yearning for from
other men? Yes, right, And

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so I think finding that sense of
community, finding that ability to be able

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to just share freely, to not
be judged, to be held, and

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to realize I'm not the only one
that's struggling and so and then I kind

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of taken another layer because I know
that for many men, they're not necessarily

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ready to go out and do a
big formal program where they're going in the

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woods being drums. They may not
want to sit in a room in a

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circle with men, and I often
offer there's something in the middle of like

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why don't we go out into nature
for a few hours with other men and

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go hiking or go kayaking, or
when I call those are men's soul adventures.

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And in the sole adventure, I
often say it's we're outdoor. We're

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we're outdoor adventure meets deeper male bonding
meets soul connecting conversations. Yes, And

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I think what many men are yearning
for is to be able to go deeper,

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have a deeper connection. And yet
it's also one of the scariest things

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for many men. And so I
often say that I will meet men and

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their suffering, how I will listen
for their yearning and offer hope in the

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midst of both. Because, as
you also read in my book, one

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of the one of the meetings of
my Project Compassion Team, where we are

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striving to deepen compassion and police departments
and federal law enforcement, we met with

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Senate staffers a week after the Uvaliti
shooting. Yeah, and it just happened

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to be our meeting was scheduled and
they didn't cancel it, and so we

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had it and in thirty minutes we
talked about men's mental health, shootings,

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gun violence, police shootings, police
suicides, and veterans suicides, which are

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more if you look at veterans and
police suicides you know, men's suicides are

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already higher than women's. These suicides
are in another category. Yes, yes,

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And when I think about it,
what's the commonality of all of this,

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it's it's often men who have gone
to a place of hopelessness. Yeah.

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I think the addic of the anecdote
is to offer hope and to offer

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opportunities for connection. I can,
oh, so beautiful. Let's let our

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listeners and viewers just do on that
as we take our first break. That's

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so beautiful, Sean, that is
such a beautiful thing to usher in as

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a possibility. I'm your host,
Doctor Earley's Cortes. We've been on the

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air with Sean Harvey, the chief
Compassion Officer and founder of Warrior Compassion Men's

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Studio. We're just getting into some
of the concepts in his book. After

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the break, we're to talk more
about this notion of healing, healing wounds

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and what we can do about that, which we'll be right back. Doctor

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Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing
in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker

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and author, she helps companies visioneer
for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

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inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that
elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within

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the workforce. To learn more or
to invite a lease to speak to your

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organization, please visit her at elisecortes
dot com. Let's talk about how to

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get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise

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Cortes. To reach our program today
or to open a conversation with Elise,

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send an email to Alise A.
L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now

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back to working on Purpose. Thank
you for staying with us, and welcome

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back to working on Purpose. I'm
your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as

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I too, am dedicated to helping
create a world where people realize their potential

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at work, are led by inspirational
leaders that help help them find and contribute

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their greatness, and we do business
that betters the world. Like Eileen Fisher,

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I continue to write my own books. So one of my latest books

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that came out in marsh of twenty
twenty three is called The Great Revitalization.

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How activating meaning and purpose can radically
enliven your business, and I wrote it

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for a business leaders to help them
understand what today's workforce really wants. And

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how they can actually get that.
So the second part of the book is

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twenty two best practices to help you
actually get there. You can learn more

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about it at a Leascoortes dot com
and find it on Amazon if you are

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just joining me. My guest is
Sean Harvey. He's the author of Warrior

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Compassion, Unleashing the Healing Power of
Men. Okay, so now I want

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to dig a little bit deeper here
because what I think what you got to

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do at Eileen Fisher, and I
know the work that you do today is

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so incredibly compelling, and you talk
about at Aileen Fisher you began to under

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some of your own deeper wounds through
the work, and you focused on three

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areas as employees as a group.
They are unmet needs, limiting beliefs,

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and shadow really powerful that kind of
digging. Can you talk a little about

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each of those three areas and why
they help men, especially deal with the

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darkness of what they what they're doing
against HM for sure, I uh of

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those three. So coming in Dalen
Fisher and into the personal transformation work and

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then ultimately leading it. You know, I both went through it and then

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I and then I taught it and
then I and then I let it.

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I think for me, the the
the unmet needs were some of them was

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was one of the first and most
profound insights. Yeah. Well, really

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it's at its core is what did
I not get as a child that really

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went to an unmet need that today
I still desire? And when I don't

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get it, what is my reaction? And often that can be a very

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triggered or triggering reaction that is uncontrollable
or war out of awareness, Yes,

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but when it happens, that's when
we might explode, or we might shut

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down, or me we might withdraw. And so that was that was the

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first insight. And I think for
so many men, we don't often want

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to look back at our childhood or
we think we had a great childhood,

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or it's not something that we feel
we need to explore. And often we're

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carrying over from childhood. And so
I think there's there's the the unmet needs.

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The limiting beliefs are what are those
tapes? What are those tapes that

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have been embedded in us, that
are that are in our hardwiring And as

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a friend of mine said, once
you know that inner critic is often at

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play. Yes, when I went
to the artist's commune, she said,

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so, what role in the orchestra
is your inner critic play? And you

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might want to take it out of
the conductor seat and maybe put it in

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the flute section or the base section
or the obo and and and I think

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the whole gist here is we're not
going to get rid of our tapes,

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as we're not going to get rid
of our ego, but we have the

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opportunity to relax the ego, and
we have an opportunity to recognize and address

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the tapes from a different level of
awareness. And from that place of awareness,

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we can start to go my limiting
beliefs and turn it into an affirming

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belief. But we have to catch
it, and we have to And that's

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where the power the pause, the
power of mindfulness, the power of just

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being present to what we're reacting to
and how how we're responding, and to

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move from knee jerk reaction to thoughtful
response. And then I think, you

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know the third and I'm going to
add a fourth after this, but the

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third is our shadow and that's often
what we can't see or what we're unaware

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of that totally activates us. And
one of the best ways to see it

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is when we see it in others. And so it's often that saying,

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if you see it, you've got
it. And so that person that annoys

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me, that person that pisses me
off, that person that I can't stand

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to be around. The real opportunity
is to get curious to say, Okay,

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what is it about that person that
I don't like within myself? You

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know? And what is when built
around it? Where is that judgment coming

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from? And where is that this
is wrong? I often say some of

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the best indicators are when you start
to say things that start with should question

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to say, where do I should
come from? If you start to have

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resentments or I'm sorry judgments, Okay, what am I judging? And what

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am I judging with myself? What
do I not like that's here that I'm

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seeing in others? And so the
shadow is is is often a way to

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unmask the things that have been masked
within us. And then the fourth I

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would say, and this is becoming
more and more pronounced, is trauma and

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just where have I been traumatized?
What experience is? What? What experience

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have I built a story around that
continues to haunt me? Consciously or unconsciously,

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and what inhibits me, what what
prevents me, what creates fear for

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me? And and and you know, and a lot of the work I

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work, I work with men who
operate in very hYP masculine systems, but

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working with police, they're experiencing trauma
on a day to day basis in a

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way that they may not even recognize
how much it's impacting them. And for

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many officers, they don't have an
outlet because they also don't have the awareness

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of what's really happening within their body, what's happening within their psyche, what's

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happening for them emotionally? Yes,
yes, And so when I talk about

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any of this, what your compassion
and compassion healing, it's really not about

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how am I compassionate to others first
and foremost, it's how am I compassionate

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with myself to be able to start
offering the self love to start healing the

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wounds they're just holding me back from
being my truth and my and my authentic

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truth. Oh, Sean, this
is so important now. And what I

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really appreciate about this is just you
know, transformation work is is really messy,

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but it's also incredibly fulfilling and so
important. And I want to now

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presence. Now that you've done that, You've given us those four years that

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we can delve into. Now I
want to kind of flip flop on the

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other side again, back to the
promise of this stuff here and again using

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your beautiful language, you say in
your book, a soul adventure, which

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is kind of what we're going into
here. We're going after a soul adventure.

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A sole adventure is a transformative journey
of self discovery, growth, and

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expansion that takes individuals on a deep
explorion of their inner world and connection to

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their greater universe. It is a
quest to discover the essence of one's being,

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purpose and truth, and a sole
adventure, individuals embark on self exploration

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and embrace the unknown, stepping outside
their comfort zones to tap into their authentic

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selves and connect with the vast possibilities
within and around them. You talk about

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that, and you say then.
Parker Palmer, a world renowned author on

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spirituality, It describes the soul as
a wild animal, resilient, resourceful,

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savvy, and self sufficient. It
knows how to survive in hard places.

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Yet despite its toughness, the soul
is also shy mm hmm. That really

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describes beautifully Sean. You know,
the promise of stepping onto this very very

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vulnerable path. Mhmm. Yeah.
You know, I think the best way

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I could describe it as a soul
adventure. Yeah. I mean, I

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think I think in today's in today's
world where we're looking for the insight,

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the quick hit, the TikTok,
the TikTok wisdom, yeah, you know

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that can change our lives. We're
looking for how to make our lives better

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and and I think the unfortunate part
is it's it's not a quick fixed journey,

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and we can And that's why I
went to seminary as well, because

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I knew we're going to do the
real work with men. It had to

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be done at the soul level.
Yes, and it really requires a psycho

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spiritual approach, not a psychological approach, mirror psychological approach, and not to

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negate it. But I think that
there's still so much left on the table

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when we're not adding the spiritual or
the soulful peace that and none of this,

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in my mind is a good,
bad, right wrong, This is

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better, this is not. I
just always ask two questions, what's been

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the cost that what has been the
benefit to your life? But what's been

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the cost of what you've been missing
out on? Yes? And I think

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for so many men, they're used
to answering or we're getting defensive, or

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we're going into defense around this,
you know, the good and the bad,

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the right and the wrong. But
it's different when we say, but

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what's been the cost and what's been
the benefit for your life? When they

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really start to think about what the
costs of and what they've been missing out

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on and what the opportunity is for
the type of life that they really want.

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You know, I think one of
the things that that complicates this but

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also creates an opening and an opportunity
is that, in very short order,

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the rules, roles, and expectations
around men, manhood, masculinity, gender

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and power have all shifted pretty radically. Yes, so I think men are

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often also, you know, in
that suffering, are also feeling lost and

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confused around where they fit. And
I think a lot of our a lot

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of our inclusion efforts have also been
projected in a way that a lot of

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men feel like they are excluded from
this. Yes, I would agree,

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And so men are often trying to
figure out, you know, with with

405
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:06.240
often limited with limited resources, limited
coping tools, resources for them to try

406
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:12.279
to navigate this world it's changing around
them radically, and you know, not

407
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:20.000
necessarily having a roadmap for me.
It was really also the question because I've

408
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:25.319
been in I've been in so many
challenging or failed relationship attempts, I should

409
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:34.720
say. And I kept yearning for
love, right, and I kept hearing

410
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:37.480
that saying that I couldn't stand at
the time, which is, well,

411
00:32:37.880 --> 00:32:40.519
how can you love someone else until
you know how to love yourself? And

412
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:44.400
I'm like, where's the freaking roadmap
on how to love myself? I don't

413
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:46.960
know how to do this, you
know, And so hopefully my book has

414
00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:51.839
become that roadmap based on all the
trial and error, and you know,

415
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:57.200
and I also want to say,
you know, I you know, I

416
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:04.200
also don't strive to be the guru. I don't strive to be the savior

417
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.880
on the mountain saying here's the way, right, you know what I mean.

418
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:15.480
I struggle with addiction. I've been
homeless, I have changed and lost

419
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:22.960
jobs when I was at my worst. You know, I know the pain

420
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:30.559
that can come from being out of
alignment, from being disconnected, and I

421
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:35.079
also have had the experience of doing
the healing where to know what alignment looks

422
00:33:35.119 --> 00:33:38.680
like, what love looks like,
what love feels like, what success looks

423
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:45.559
like, and to have been on
both sides of the spectrum or the continuum,

424
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:51.799
and knowing how detrimental it can be. And especially you know, because

425
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:57.000
there's also that misnomer. For me, and we're talking about purpose, my

426
00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:01.799
career was my identity. Yes,
well, my life was a shit storm.

427
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:07.160
At times, I looked really good
on paper, and I made sure

428
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:12.000
I continue to look good on paper. At the same time as my life

429
00:34:12.039 --> 00:34:15.880
was onrap, my personal life was
unraveling. And so I think for so

430
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:22.639
many men who are successful leaders,
you know, this is also these messages

431
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:29.960
are also for them who may not
have what they want in their lives,

432
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:36.360
even if they've gotten all the prizes
from playing the game. Yeah, oh,

433
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:37.800
okay, let's take our last break
on that one, because I want

434
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.679
to follow up with a few more
questions after the break. I'm your host,

435
00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:44.440
doctor Releas Cortesh. We've been on
here with Sean Harvey. He's the

436
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:49.519
chief Compassion Officer and founder of the
Warrior Compassion Men's Studio we've been getting deeper

437
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:52.360
into the importance of looking at healing
and trauma. After the break, we're

438
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.679
going to get into this little personnikity
area called existential questions. Say which We'll

439
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:16.199
be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes
is a management consultant specializing in meaning and

440
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:22.360
purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

441
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:28.000
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

442
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.159
performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a

443
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:36.840
lease to speak to your organization,
please visit her at elisecortes dot com.

444
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:45.400
Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

445
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:50.800
on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.
To reach our program today or to open

446
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:55.039
a conversation with Elise, send an
email to Alise A. L Se at

447
00:35:55.039 --> 00:36:05.719
elisecortes dot com. Now back to
working on Purpose. Yes, thank yous

448
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.159
staying with us, and welcome back
to working on Purpose. I'm your host,

449
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.760
Doctor release Cortes. I mentioned in
the last break that I just put

450
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.400
up my book The Great Revitalization in
March of twenty three. I gave you

451
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.320
a company for that on my website. It is an assessment. It's a

452
00:36:17.320 --> 00:36:22.559
three page assessment that you can take
for your company to see to what extent

453
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:28.320
you are meeting the standards of today's
workforce. So it's there on the how

454
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.639
we can help tap. You can
find it at least cooretest dot com if

455
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:35.679
you're just now joining us today.
My guest is Warrior Compassion, Unleashing and

456
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:39.039
Healing and Power of Men author Sean
Harvey. Okay, Sean, so one

457
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:43.400
of the things that I align with
you on beautifully and I can well imagine

458
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.920
this how this made you very popular
when you were young, but you have

459
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:52.599
been able to access the importance of
asking existential questions and what I love about

460
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:57.280
that, especially juxtapost with what you
shared just before the last break about how

461
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:04.280
men can be wildly successful against what's
aciety says successes, but be wholly miserable

462
00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:07.440
on the inside because they're not getting
the intimacy and love and connection that they

463
00:37:07.519 --> 00:37:12.000
want. And so you talk about
this notion of the you know, buried

464
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:15.440
beneath the depths of our being,
beneath the layers of societal conditioning, the

465
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.800
noise of day life lay profound questions
that stew our souls and challenge our understanding

466
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:23.400
of existence. And it's important to
ask those questions. You talk a little

467
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:35.920
bit about that, please, I'm
just taking on those words just because I

468
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:43.239
you know, and as I said
earlier, the my struggles early on in

469
00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:47.800
my career finding the right fit,
so I never really was was. It

470
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:52.039
took a while for me to figure
out where I was a fit. It

471
00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:54.280
took me a longer time to figure
out what my purpose was. And at

472
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:58.599
the same time, I became really
good at being a career coach and helping

473
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:04.440
other people find their purpose. And
you know, I've been on the journey

474
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.480
before I was on the journey.
I mean, I think the first the

475
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.559
first experience was when I was sixteen. I came out as a gay man.

476
00:38:12.199 --> 00:38:16.159
It's a gay young man at fifteen, and then at sixteen I started

477
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:21.480
a gain lesbian youth group for the
city of Dayton, Ohio in nineteen eighty

478
00:38:21.559 --> 00:38:28.599
nine or ninety before it was cool
and hip. And when I started it,

479
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:32.440
you know, I was creating mission
and vision statements before I knew what

480
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:38.719
they were. And I actually created
an organization that is around thirty something years

481
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:45.159
later now supporting all of southwest Ohio
from Columbus Cincinnati over the UNIONA border.

482
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:53.000
And when I when I over time, when I would make career decisions,

483
00:38:53.920 --> 00:39:00.480
if I went for money, prestige, title status, I would fall flat

484
00:39:00.559 --> 00:39:05.039
on my face within six months.
If I get quiet and go back to

485
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:09.320
what that experience was, I would
always think back to what I did when

486
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:13.920
I was sixteen, and I'm like, remind me, oh, yeah,

487
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:16.480
I'm committed to service. And when
I made it less about me and my

488
00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:21.000
ego and more about the way I
could serve, that's when the doors would

489
00:39:21.039 --> 00:39:24.639
open to each step and I would
just listen for what felt right, and

490
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.000
those moves led me to where I
am today. So for those people who

491
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:34.280
are just now catching this idea of
except to questions, I think it's important

492
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:36.760
that we talk about what we mean
by those, so things like who am

493
00:39:36.800 --> 00:39:40.039
I? Why am I here?
And that's really important that people understand what

494
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:45.480
we're talking about here because your path
is so beautiful and nuanced, And the

495
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:47.519
other thing I want to say quickly
about what you just said about coming out

496
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:52.599
at sixteen, I really appreciate how
openly and beautiful you share in your book.

497
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:59.519
Sean. You're so accessible in your
book. And I appreciate the relationship

498
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:01.800
that you develo with your father over
over the years. He was not a

499
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:07.880
fan of you being being being gay, and I really appreciate how you navigated

500
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:12.079
that journey with him and how you
talk about where it went. And I

501
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:14.639
want the reason I want to bring
that up is for listeners and viewers wherever

502
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:17.440
you are on this, whether you're
a parent, whether you're the you're the

503
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:22.079
one trying to come out. I
just really think that Shawn's experience is really

504
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:30.599
powerful mm hmm. You know,
And I was just going to say that

505
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:36.760
these experiences led me to my my
my second master's degree where I focus on

506
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:44.039
existential psychotherapy as my as my degree. And the question so you started to

507
00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:47.239
answer the what are the four questions? You know? And and I think

508
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:51.280
what you just hit on though,
and what you just shared was the final

509
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:54.440
question. So I often say,
it's, oh my, why am I

510
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:58.800
here? What am I here to
do? And then how do I love?

511
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:04.320
And I honestly think it was through
healing my relationship with my father that

512
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.840
that's where I actually was able for
the first time to feel the experience of

513
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:15.800
visceral, unconditional love. After fourteen
years of not talking and being told I

514
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:21.800
was going to hell because I was
getting in the year journey with my father

515
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:27.280
where I asked myself at one point
when I was deep in my resentment,

516
00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:31.119
and I said, Sean, you
have a choice. You can either stay

517
00:41:31.119 --> 00:41:35.719
in resentment or you can lean into
love. It was the moment that I

518
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:42.480
leaned into love that our relationship changed, and it transformed in time to the

519
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:47.840
point when my father, two days
before he passed, you know, said

520
00:41:47.960 --> 00:41:52.239
he was proud of the man that
I became and did not never let anyone

521
00:41:52.280 --> 00:42:00.119
extinguish my flame. And I think
we often underestimate the relationships with our fathers

522
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.960
and the impact has and the desire
we have to the connection at a shaman

523
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:12.000
once say that we are integrating men
who learn from unintegrated fathers. And it's

524
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:16.039
not a dig in our fathers.
It's a reality of what evolution looks like

525
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:23.079
and how we evolve. But I
think at the core this book, you

526
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.000
know, we can talk about purpose, we can talk about existential questions,

527
00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:31.840
we can talk about spirituality, we
can talk about healing, but ultimately this

528
00:42:31.880 --> 00:42:36.920
book is about how to help men
learn to love in a new way and

529
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:40.480
then from that place the ripple effect. You talk about if I can learn

530
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:45.119
how to love from a place an
unconditional love, and I often say it's

531
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:52.599
this movement from an intellectualized idea of
love with conditions what many of us learn.

532
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:57.440
And until we can have a greater
emotional capacity, we will intellectualize and

533
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:04.599
rationalize what this feels like and name
it through our thoughts. And then there's

534
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:08.159
a and then that the healing allows
us to move to the visceral experience of

535
00:43:08.239 --> 00:43:14.360
unconditional love. And so, as
a gay man who works with white nationalist

536
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:16.599
and far right extremists, when someone
asks me, Sean, how can you

537
00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:21.880
do that? You know, I
think we are seeing, even in the

538
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:28.039
last few weeks, what great division
looks like. Yes, right. And

539
00:43:28.039 --> 00:43:31.800
what I will say is I can
see I've done enough of my work that

540
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:37.760
I can see the humanity in each
man and I encounter, and I can

541
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.559
love them in their humanity, even
if I abhor, or deny, or

542
00:43:43.079 --> 00:43:47.880
or or am so different from their
views. But I also have a sense

543
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:54.320
that oftentimes those views are leading to
suffering. And that's where I can say

544
00:43:54.679 --> 00:44:00.559
I have compassion for the suffering.
I meet them in the suffering, and

545
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:04.559
again, like I said earlier,
I've listened for the earning and off for

546
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:08.920
help. It's so powerful the work
that you do. And I think it's

547
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:14.360
important at this juncture, especially now, Sean, that we make a distinction.

548
00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.000
This is something that you do in
the book. You distinguish between therapy,

549
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:21.280
so that's you know, having a
one on one relationship with a counselor

550
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:24.880
or a therapist and personal transformation work. And so I think it would be

551
00:44:24.880 --> 00:44:29.079
good for us to be able to
help probably at this point going great,

552
00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:30.760
this is all I'm in. I'm
but how do I do this? So

553
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:35.440
I think it would be interesting to
kind of distinguish those formats if you could.

554
00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:43.599
I think therapy is the one on
one conversation, you know, it

555
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:45.320
could be other modalities. It could
be E M, d R. It

556
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:50.000
could be some trauma based work.
There are other types of arts therapy,

557
00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:55.000
what have you. And I've heard
this from other other other men that say,

558
00:44:55.480 --> 00:45:00.559
you know, healing as a solo
adventure. I'm like, sure,

559
00:45:00.960 --> 00:45:07.199
there's some work you have to do
alone. But I think the reality for

560
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:13.800
a lot of men is what we
often need most is community. In a

561
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.440
sense of community, you know,
I was in a conversation once, and

562
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:23.159
what we were talking about is,
you know, from a coaching perspective that

563
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:30.320
women are often seeking purpose, help
around purpose and clarifying purpose and finding their

564
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:36.920
voice from that place of purpose,
and men are often getting coaching around relationship

565
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:45.920
and being relational and having the emotions
Yes, you're right, And so that's

566
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:50.679
I think why it's so important the
personal transformation work is often in a group

567
00:45:50.719 --> 00:45:54.599
setting. It's often we are mirrors
of each other's humanity, so we can

568
00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:59.519
start to see and start to feel
and start to connect in a different way.

569
00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.119
And I think it's also important to
you know, acknowledge most of what's

570
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:08.119
out there today. When we look
at what's the plight of men, it's

571
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:13.960
really this epidemic of loneliness and isolation. Yes, yes, And the Surgeon

572
00:46:14.039 --> 00:46:19.880
General just came out with the report
that the United States is experiencing an epidemic

573
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.639
and has been for quite some time, an epidemic of loneliness, and those

574
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:30.440
numbers are exacerbated for men. And
when we think about what is the anecdote

575
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:35.639
And when I was in you know, my healing, you know, when

576
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:38.639
you are wounded, the first place
you want to go is to isolate,

577
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:45.679
and the anecdote to help heal the
wounds is connection, community, intimacy,

578
00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:50.760
and love. And what we haven't
talked about is the intimacy piece. Yeah,

579
00:46:51.119 --> 00:46:52.320
and we're running out of time so
we won't be able to treat it.

580
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:58.480
But it's so so important, right
right. It's a it's a critical

581
00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:00.880
ingredient. It really is an It's
different from love and sex, as you

582
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:05.039
talked about on your book. Just
quickly because I want to be able to

583
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:07.760
ste presences for our listeners and viewers
you talk about, you say, and

584
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.079
this this world, I'll have you
just quickly come and then we'll close the

585
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:14.280
show. You say, as men, we had everything inside of us when

586
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:17.519
we were born, our masculine and
feminine energies and qualities. As we grow

587
00:47:17.559 --> 00:47:21.880
older, many of us lost access
to parts of ourselves, or, as

588
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.719
my dear friend Ken Mossman would say, we voted them off the island based

589
00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:29.159
on our conditioning or the messages we
receive from the world, our parents,

590
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:34.320
friends, peers, faith media that
we internalize as our truth that informed our

591
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:38.079
belief systems in worldview. For many
men, we voted off our feminine attributes

592
00:47:38.119 --> 00:47:43.159
and have been left with our masculine
energy, attributes and qualities. This is

593
00:47:43.199 --> 00:47:45.960
not a question of right, wrong, good or bad. However, what

594
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:49.360
has been the cost? What have
you been missing by not accessing your feminine

595
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.400
energy? I think we would be
remiss if we didn't say that. Part

596
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.280
of what you're putting forth in your
book is this notion of integrating into a

597
00:47:55.360 --> 00:47:59.960
wholeness here. I think that's so
important. So if you could quickly come

598
00:48:00.039 --> 00:48:06.039
and then we'll need to close the
show. Yeah, I think we.

599
00:48:06.599 --> 00:48:10.159
I think the essence of it is
there's many of us are are out of

600
00:48:10.199 --> 00:48:15.559
balance and in order to come into
our full humanity. And often what I

601
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:17.719
would say to chiefs the police when
I meet them is when I hope your

602
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.440
cops get in touch with their femine
so they can come into the full humanity.

603
00:48:22.480 --> 00:48:25.000
And so I think that, and
they often would not even have a

604
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.559
reaction, They would just have a
curiosity say so, so tell me how

605
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:32.079
you do that? Yeah, And
I think there's there's something in the message.

606
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:39.880
I think there's something in the And
no matter where I go, the

607
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.320
the opening work that seems to open
the most doors is when I talk about

608
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:50.559
humanity and coming into our full humanity
and coming into our shared humanity, taking

609
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.760
away identity and politics and all of
the things that feel like they divide us,

610
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:59.000
and coming into our shared humanity,
which is something that can unite us.

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The world needs you desperately, my
friend, Sean Harvey. I am

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00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:06.760
very very happy to call you as
a friend, a colleague, and someone

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00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:08.280
I'm shouting out the important work you're
doing in the world. Thank you so

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00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:10.800
much for being a guest and working
on purpose. It's great to have you

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00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:15.480
back. Thank you so much.
It's good pleasure. Listeners and viewers.

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00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:19.320
If you will learn more about Sean
Harvey and I think you do the work

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00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.400
that he does at Warrior Compassion Men's
studio or his new book, Warrior Compassion,

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00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:28.400
go to his website. It would
you be surprised to know is Warriorcompassion

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00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:30.559
dot com last week? If you
missed the live show, you can always

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00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.480
get to be a recorded podcast.
We were on here with Michael Levy,

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00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.719
who has helped over four hundred and
fifty companies greatly improve their engagement scores and

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00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:43.840
reduce turnover through the design and development
of award winning employee reward and recognition programs

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00:49:44.199 --> 00:49:47.199
as a CEO and co founder of
work proud. He regularly advises and implements

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00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:52.840
the recognition strategy for fortune one thousand
hr innovators. We talked about the latest

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00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:57.559
best practices in recognizing employees to engage
their hearts and minds. Next week,

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00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.000
we'll be on the air with Talia
Fox talking about HERNEIH book, The Power

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00:50:00.079 --> 00:50:06.000
of Conscious Connection for happus to transform
how you live and lead. See you

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00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:08.159
there, and remember work is one
of the best adventures and means of realizing

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our potential and making the impact with
crave. So let's work on Purpose.

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00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:17.960
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on

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00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.199
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise
Cortes, each week on W four C

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00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:28.719
Why. Together, We'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires

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00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:31.800
and passion performance, and employees are
fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and

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00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:36.519
purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.