Unleashing Business as the Force for Healing

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five, it's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez, joining
a live from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home base for me if you've
been tuning in for a while. Even

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though this program is designed to be
an inspirational thought leadership platform that advances the

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conversation on living with passion and inspiration
and working on purpose and as I'm committed

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to helping create a world where people
actually want to go to work, the

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content choices are designed to help equip
leaders inside organizations to make work a fulfilling

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part of life so employees thrive,
give their best performance and want to stay.

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I talk with my guests that are
on their expertise and share my own

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experience consulting, speaking and developing workforces
across the globe. With us today is

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doctor Raj Sosodia, an FWOLN Distinguished
Professor of Global Business and Whole Foods Market

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Research Scholar in Conscious Capitalism at Babson
College. He is the co founder and

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co chairman of Conscious Capitalism, Inc. And the author of eleven books and

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over one hundred academic articles. Today
we'll be talking about his latest book,

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The Healing Organization While Wakening the Conscience
of business to help save the world.

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You joint to today from Boston,
Massachusetts. Doctors, Welcome to Working on

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Purpose. Thank you, very happy
to be with you. Alice, Well,

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I'm happy to have you today too, because today we're prerecording this conversation

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on January thirty, which is my
birthday, So today you are my birthday

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present. Thank you. You are
a wonderful present. So I'm looking forward

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to this conversation. I want to
get as much out of you as I

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possibly can it as time, and
I want to say for our listeners benefit

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that I discovered you because I am
a member here in Dallas of Conscious Capitalism.

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The group here and one of the
presenters had mentioned you and your various

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books, and that's how I got
to know about you. And of course

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you're all about enlightened business management.
And I want to just open our conversation

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by something that you wrote in your
book that really moved me to tears.

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So let our listeners get to know
you a little bit. And you say,

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I quote I remember the moment when
I found my purpose, or more

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accurately, when my purpose found me. On June twelve, two thousand and

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five, I was researching stories of
how some companies were demonstrating deep and authentic

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caring to their customers, employees,
communities and was moved to tears. Never

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prior having had a positive emotional response
to your work before I realized there is

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a better way. Not only did
I find one, I discovered a bonus

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to a better way. It wasn't
just more caring and humane, it was

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also far more profitable. Doctor SiO. Do you thought is just beautiful?

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Thank you? Yeah. This was
in the process of writing the book that

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eventually became Firms of Endearment, How
one class companies profit from passion and purpose,

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And we indeed discovered a whole different
way of being in business that was

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very different from the traditional narrative that
I had been taught in business school,

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that I was in fact teaching as
a business professor, that the only purpose

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of business is to maximize profits creatureholder
value, and we use all the other

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stakeholders for that reason. And I
found a way of being where it was

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really about authentically caring for people and
their well being. It was having a

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purpose in the world, separate from
profit leaders who cared about people, who

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cared about the purpose. It wasn't
just about power and money and cultures where

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people actually look forward to going to
work. And we found that those companies

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that fit those guida, which we
now refer to as the tenets of conscious

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Capitalism, actually succeed far better in
financial terms as well. It was nine

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to one in the original research that
was published in that book over a ten

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year period, while they're also creating
many other kinds of value and well being

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for people. So it's not just
that they're squeezing everything out of people,

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actually contributing to people's lives, while
they're also creating great abundance financial abundance.

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So that was a turning point in
my life. And as I said,

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the emotional reaction that I had to
those stories I think told me something.

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You know that there's you know,
business operates at the level of the head

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and sometimes emotions. We kind of
manipulate people's emotions, but we really don't

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operate at the level of the heart
and the soul. And I think that's

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what this journey is about. It's
about love, and it's about purpose and

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those are deeper human motivations that we
can tap into and achieve, you know,

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and your work is all about that
at least. So I'm very happy

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to be bringing this to you.
Thank you, Thank you for that.

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Yes, and I did, as
you know, read your book Forms of

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Endearment and found it incredibly compelling and
so incredibly still useful. So much of

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the world is not there yet,
Doctors Society. I know you wrote that

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book many years ago, but the
world still needs to catch up. So

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we got to keep we gotta keep
talking about this. So for our listeners

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benefit who don't know you as I
do, would you just sketch a little

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bit of your background of interest in
perspectives and various involvements that led you and

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Michael galb to write this leader's book, The Healing Organization. Yeah, so

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I would say that it's the continuation
of my journey which really changed trajectories around

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two thousand and five, and I
have that awakening and kind of my purpose

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found me, and that led to
terms of indiament, which led to Conscious

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Capitalism, the movement, and ultimately
the book and then other books followed,

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the one on the feminization or the
rise of feminine values and the need to

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bring more feminine values into leadership,
which is called Shuck the Leadership, and

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then a book call Everybody Matters,
as well as a field guide. So

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that evolution of that thinking and just
thinking more deeply about these principles and pillars

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of conscious capitalism ultimately led me to
this realization that I've been using healing as

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an acronym for the qualities of a
great purpose. A stands for heroic and

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evolving and aligning and loving and inspiring, natural and galvanizing. But as I

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thought more deeply about that, I
realize that there's something more hidden there that

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ultimately I believe that the fundamental purpose
of business is for us to take care

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of each other. It's for us
to uncover and meet each other's needs,

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and when you do that, you
actually make somebody hold you. Heal them

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in that dimension when you're uncover and
meet their real needs, right, and

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if we operate with that energy,
we're actually going to heal them. But

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we actually don't for the most part
do that. Business is for the most

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part, exploiting opportunities, right,
figuring out how we can make money by

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using people, using customers and employees
and others. Right. So the energy

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behind it is one of using and
exploiting rather than serving and taking care of.

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And that makes all the difference because
on the surface it might look the

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same, but when you have the
energy of taking care of and serving,

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then you actually make people's lives better
and you heal them. Otherwise you actually

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call suffering. So that was kind
of the that said, Wow, business

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can be done in a way that
on the surface looks the same, but

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one way causes suffering, in the
other way causes joy and healing. How

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can we explore that idea? I
like it, and to that end,

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I want to share with our listeners
what I found to be wonderful audacity and

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the way in your opening chapter,
Doctor Society. Let me read it a

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little short bit here, and then
if you could comment on it, you

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say, I quote, imagine a
company whose CEO set out to pay people

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as much as possible, help communities
in distress before FEMA and the Red Cross

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when there was a disaster, treated
your spouse and kids and pets as stakeholders,

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reduced the company environmental footprint to zero, or made a positive contribution of

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the ecosystem. Was willing to hire
seventy million Americans with criminal records and give

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them a first chance, an opportunity
to build a happy life, raise a

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family, and become productive, taxpaying
citizens, and they're more profitable and prosperous

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than their industry peers. Imagine that
that sounds like a world I want to

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live in. It sounds utropian.
But this is really a collection of some

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of the stories and the right These
are all things that various companies did,

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and all of the companies that we
feature in the book are generally more successful

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than the average company in the industry, and by in some cases dramatically so.

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And that's a big part of our
movement to show that we don't have

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to make a false choice between succeeding
in material terms or creating financial abundance and

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being human and humane and loving and
caring that those two things actually go together

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that we don't have to inflict suffering
on people and in fact even cause death

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and despair among people to make money. In fact, quite the opposite.

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That's a very very important message because
a lot of people can dismiss firms of

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India and all these kinds of works. I say, oh, these are

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just do gooders and they don't actually
care about making money in the world,

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and they can't ultimately compete and succeed. No, we believe these companies are

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actually more successful. They are more
resilient, they are more competitive, they

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are stronger. As I said in
terms of Indian endearing companies, are India

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in companies the ones that ultimately survive
because they have all the stakeholders are emotionally

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invested in their in their success right. So again it breaks that trail off

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mentality that we have. You know, so much of life is about the

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mental models with which we operate and
how we think the world works, and

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we're trying to show that there's actually
a different way in which these things can

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work. Business is the ultimate win
win game in the world, but for

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the most part, we practice it
like it's a win lose game, and

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every win lose game ultimately is a
lose, loose game, so we need

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to change that model. But I
completely agree. I'm with you. I'm

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one of your I'm one of your
soldiers, doctors a story, I'm right

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there with you. Well, we
don't like the military metaphors of so sorry

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about that. Yes, you're right. But that's a good point though,

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that you raise there, because you
know, so much of our business way

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of thinking and language and we're being
is actually derived from the military and from

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conflict. Right. If we look
at hierarchy and command and control, and

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then strategy, tactics, operations,
frontline, headquarters, staff line, trenches,

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soldiers, etc. Those are all
military terms. And the reason is

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that in the nineteenth century when we
started to have large companies, the only

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models that existed our armies. So
we kind of borrowed the way of running

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an army and to apply that to
running a company. But you know,

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business is not a war, and
business is not about killing and destroying and

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dominating. Our business is about serving
and taking care of right and elevating.

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So we need different metaphors, and
I think we have to watch out when

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we fall into because it's now deeply
ingrained in us to use that language.

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Well, you're right, I just
did it, right, I absolutely just

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did and I just demonstrated it well. And to that end, Actress,

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so sorty one of the things that
I well, there are many things I

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found compelling about your book, but
you have a way in that one of

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the earlier chapters here of really presencing
just the pervasiveness of business and its dominant

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force in today's life. And I
think could you paint for us a little

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bit of that picture of both how
business really serves us well and how it

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doesn't today. Yeah, well,
you know, in a free society,

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business it pretty much impacts our saving
ninety percent of our lives. I mean,

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governments don't and I'm not supposed to
meet our needs. Businesses are given

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the opportunity but also the responsibility to
do that. Right, So almost everything

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that happens in our lives is impacted
by the way in which businesses operate.

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And if the business culture is one
of purely based upon profit maximization shareholder,

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you know, and that becomes greed
and exploitation and using and you know,

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the power and ego and money.
That's what it's all about, and that

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causes many many kinds of suffering in
our lives. You know, we start

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to look at our fellow citizens really
as people to be used and exploited.

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We start to see what can we
get out of them, How can we

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strict them, how can we squeeze
more out of them? You know,

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one of the things realizations that I
had along with the journey of writing The

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Smoke on Healing was I needed to
heal myself and we need to actually take

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time off and go on a variety
of different healing experiences, one in the

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Himalayas, one in the Amazon rainforest, and silent retreat and working with coaches

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and all kinds of things, right, and then some of the realizations that

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I had is that we need to
actually get back through these four things that

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we've lost sight of its love,
innocence, simplicity, and truth. And

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you know, business has gone far
away from these things. And that's kind

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of the insight that I received on
one of my silent retreats, is that

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this is what the world of business
has gone away from, and this is

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what we need to get to.
We are operating in the opposite way of

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all of those words without love,
and we've lost our innocence. We're exploiting

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and abusing each other. We've made
things only complex and we have no commitment

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to the truth. You know,
if we can get back to those things,

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so embrace those things, I think
it'll make a tremendous difference. I

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completely agree. Now, I'm wondering
when I was going through your book there

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and I found you talk about four
essential energies that you think are that you

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say are best embodied in organizations,
and what you just said, there are

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more if they're are connected. I
thought I read one to be tough minded,

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which is the masculine energy, too
tenderhearted to feminine energy. Three to

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be wise and connected to our principle
wise higher selves, and for being playful

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and retaining joy. Is that related
to what you just were talking about us

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odia? It's it's connected. I
mean it's not a one to one thing,

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but yeah, this is a you
know what I call the we also

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might call the the millie mine.
I refer to this as the wise fool

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of tough love. You as one
human being simultaneously be wise and foolish and

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tough and loving. And often we
think we're one of those things? Are

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the you know, two of those
things were not all we need to be

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all those things. And that's what
it means to be a whole human.

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That what it means to have all
the four energies are presented in a company,

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in a society, etceter. We
need all of them in their healthy

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manifestations because each of them has a
dark side or a toxic side. We

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can have a hyper masculine approad,
which is domination, aggression, you know,

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hyper competition, winning at all costs, celts, etc. You know.

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We can have the hyper feminine,
which can become sentimental and needy and

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dependent. We can have sort of
dogmatic, sort of elder energy rather than

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the wise and loving energy. And
then we can have sort of the adolescent

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and immature child instead of the joyful
in a child I think we're talking about.

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So again, we need to cultivate
the positive aspects of all four of

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those as leaders and also make them
part of the cultures of our companies and

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our communities. And I completely agree
with that, and I do that work

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too to help do that for myself
as well. And in fact, you

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said you've done some work for yourself
to pre your own healing. This year,

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doctor Sisodia, I will be doing
a two hundred kilometer race in Bhutan

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in May over six days and stages, so you end up running about a

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marathon a day through through trails and
such in villages, and we get to

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stay in monkst villages and finish at
the monastery and the cliff. But I'm

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doing it for very much the same
reason that you did yours, and I

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am trying to cultivate that full being
in myself so that I can be a

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higher service to my clients, just
like you're saying. So. Really appreciate

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very much your message. Yeah,
that's that's wonderful. One of the things

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that I to me that your work
just makes complete, absolute sense. But

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I do encounter people that just don't
seem to get it. But you do

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say in your book, you say
that once someone understands capitalism can evolve to

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can evolve to meet genuine human needs, creating value, being of service to

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one another, and we can fulfill
our own self interest in a much richer,

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deeper way. Once you know that
is possible, why would you consider

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doing anything else and settling for less. I completely agree with that, but

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I do encounter people still who don't
believe this. Yeah, and I think

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it's you know, it's it's years
of conditioning, it's what they were taught.

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It's a belief system that they hold. You know, in many cases

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it has served them individually. Well. I see, if you've got us

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CEO who primarily is motivated by power
and money, which, by the way,

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I would say the majority of CEOs
that are currently CEOs of large companies

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are primarily motivated by power and money, and the system has served them very

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well, right, And so they
don't see anything wrong with it, really,

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despite the fact that there's all this
untold suffering that's going on with their

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employees and the families of the employees, and what's happening in the communities and

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the environment, and even their customers
help may be affected. So they don't

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see it because they don't feel it
personally and they don't actually care about those

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other things. So I think that's
a matter of elevating their consciousness awakening,

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or maybe in some cases we just
need leaders with a different consciousness at the

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top. Right, If you have
a leader who's primarily motivated by money,

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then that's you know, they're going
to operate the business in a certain way

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and it's going to end up using
and exploiting people so I think that's really

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the challenge that we have. You
know that we have to awaken the leaders

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or there or we have to have
leaders with a different consciousness in place,

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because for some people, you know, they say you will see it when

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you believe it. So if you
just want to believe it, you will

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never see it. You will you
will argue to the death that yeah,

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this is just not possible. If
you want to make money, to focus

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resolutely on making money, make that
your primary purpose. Well we show that

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that if you do that, that's
actually is harmful. You will be less

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successful over time. You know,
Victor Franco Daught is that at an individual

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level another person meaning right, yeah, yes, yes, that's another another

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one of my major fosi as well. Yeah, with that, doctor Socorty,

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let's grab our first break. I'm
your host, at least Cortez.

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We've been on the year of doctor
Roge Sosia, an fw all and Distinguished

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Professor of Global Business and Whole Foods
Market Research Scholar and Conscious Capitalism at Babson

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College. He's the co founder and
co chairman of Conscious Capitalism, Inc.

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And he's the co author of Conscious
Capitalism Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business and

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Wall Street Journal bestseller Everybody Matters.
He joined it today from Boston, Massachusetts.

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We've been talking a bit about where
his interest came from it for this,

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for this current book, The Healing
Organization after the Rcrediato, some of

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the stories that he shares from the
book. Stay with us, We'll be

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right back. Alise Cortez is a
speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She

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designs and delivers professional development, leadership
and engagement workshops and can bring her expertise

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to your organization. She will help
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that will

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increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more or to invite Elise

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to speak to your organization, please
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez dot

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00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:56.039
com. She would welcome the opportunity
to help get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

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send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com. Now

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back to working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us and welcome back to

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working on Purpose. If you're just
joining us, my guests, Doctor Rojasdia,

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the co founder and co chairman of
Conscious Capitalism, Inc. And the

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co author of the healing organization Awakening
the Conscience of Business to help save the

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world. I'm your host, Elise
Cortez. Before we get into the story

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starts Todia, I want to say
something about the conversation that the Business Roundtable

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Statement of Purpose that was kicked off
last August twenty nineteen, and it was

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really for the listeners who haven't seen
this. The idea was that business was

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to serve all stakeholders. And I've
been very interested in the counter arguments that

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that has spurred. What is your
stance, what's your what's what's your finger

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on the pulse for this conversation?
Why do you think it's so it's stirring

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up so much contention the Business Roundtable
statement, Yes, yeah, I think

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again that's what I was talking about
earlier. I know. So there are

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some i would say, fundamentalist capitalists
out there, right, so the Milton

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Freedman school which still exists and a
lot of people still subscribe to that that

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business is only about profit maximization.
Everything else is a distraction from that.

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So when the Business Roundtable says,
no, you need to have a purpose,

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separate from that, you need to
take care of all your stakeholders,

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not just as shareholders. That to
them, you know, just doesn't intrude

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their belief system. And so I
think we're you know, that's where in

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the middle of that transition. I
think it's kind of a paradigm shift that's

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happening, and there's going to be
a lot of resistance. Anytime there's a

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new paradigm they're trying to upend and
existing paradigm. You're going to see,

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you know, it's kind of like
episode two of Star Wars. It's kind

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of the Empire strikes back. It's
like the Force awakens. That's been going

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on for a while. The Force
has been awakening, but then the Empire

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always strikes back, right, and
then there's always a third chapter, which

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is the Return of the Jedi is
sort of the conclusion of that. Right,

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I think we are to stay with
it. We go, we know

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we're going to encounter resistance. But
this is indeed a better way, and

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this is the only way. We
can no longer afford that old way because

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that has in fact caused too many
of the so called externalities which are now

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adding up. You know, that's
simply not tenable anymore. We will destroy

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ourselves and destroy the planet if we
continue down that path, So we definitely

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need to change. The answer is
not to get rid of capitalism. We

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don't need to decimate capitalism. It's
the most thing we could do, but

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we need to elevate it. Yes, capitalism is a system, and like

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any other system, it functions depending
on the consciousness of the user, right,

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and how we approach it, what's
the purpose for it? One of

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the connections between the elements of it. And you change the vopos of any

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system, it's behavior changes adidly.
And that's what we're trying to do,

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is change the pocos and the relationships
within capitalism involvement. And you just really

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do so beautifully in your book dartor
Socidio. But at least the two that

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I've read so far, and the
chapter that you have in that this current

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book, the Healing Organization on evolving
from Empire to ministry, from conquering to

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caring for Me really really opened my
eyes to just what you said before about

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the old and the new world,
and it was very compelling. How you

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how when when we when I read
that, and I'm going to ask you

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to share some of it now if
you will, You're right. I mean,

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it's so these ideas, these old
ideas that we've accepted from the military

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and conquering and such, are so
much a part of our vernacular today it's

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really hard to separate them. So
will you share for our listeners some of

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these historical hallmarks of empire and conquering
that you do in the books so we

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can get present to what we're what
we're dealing with here. Yeah, so

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human history has been more with first
of all, masculine energy and men dominating

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every aspect of society in the absence
of the sort of balancing feminine that becomes

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hyper masculine, that becomes you know, as I said, domination, aggression,

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conquering, winning at all costs,
and so forth. So we've seen

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that in the political realm, of
course, we've seen that with the empires

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that have existed. All empires have
existed essentially to fulfill and serve the ego

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of the emperor, right, or
somebody who wanted to go from being a

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king to an emperor, going to
be called so and so the great right.

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So there's a there's an uninsatiable appetite
there for power and riches that can

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never really be fulfilled. But in
the pursuit of that, there's a countless,

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untold amount of human suffering that has
happened. Right, So millions of

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people get killed and lands get conquered, and the empire spreads and and ultimately

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the whole thing falls apart once the
emperor dies or is killed, and there's

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no real lasting positive impact from that. There might be a few monuments and

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buildings or whatever, but that's the
energy that has driven so much. And

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one of the interesting stories that I
did found, and I happened to be

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in a part of India a few
years ago, I was invited to speak

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in a state of Orissa, and
I went to visit this site where the

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emperor Ashoka, who was literally the
greatest emperor in the history of India and

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maybe one of the greatest dads defined
by how you measure empires, the size

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and in scale and growth of the
sort of the span of where they controlled

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almost all of modern India and beyond. And that's the place where he fought

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his final battle to conquer the last
remaining hold out kingdom and make it part

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of his empire. And that's where
he had his awakening as he watched as

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he walked on that battlefield the morning
after the war had ended, one hundred

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thousand of his soldiers had died one
hundred thousand on the other side, and

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millions of people were impacted. And
as he normally would have walked in triumph,

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and on that day, he saw
the blood and the dead bodies,

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and some were not yet dead and
screaming in pain. And the water,

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the blood was flowing down a hill
from this battlefield down to a river,

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and that river was literally running red
with all that blood in it. And

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he had this deep awakenings, Oh
my God, what am I doing?

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Why am I causing all the suffering? You know? And he awakened that

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day and he basically committed that he
would never cause any more suffering to any

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humans or animals again, and then
he would do everything he could to prevent

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that in the world. He embraced
Buddhism, and you know, there's the

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whole next chapter of his life where
really he became. He went from being

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an empire to being a ministry.
He took his army and basically created an

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army of missionaries, and he embraced
Buddhism and then he sent emissaries all over

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Asia, and that's why we have
Buddhism in places so far from India.

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I mean, they originated there,
and now it's much more prevalent in East

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Asia, right in Japan, in
China and more many other places. So

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a Showka was responsible for that.
He sent his own son and daughter as

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missionaries and other places. So that's
an example of a shift from an empire

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mindset to a missionary mindset. Right, one is spreading suffering and feeding the

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ego, and the other one is
spreading healing and feeding your soul. That's

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really I think the parallel that I'm
trying to rather is with the world of

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business today. We don't have that
many political empires for the most part.

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That's died away, but we replace
that with business empires, and the same

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energy drives the growth of business empires. There are founders there whose quest for

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more power, more control, more
influenced, you know, more impact is

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never ending. And in the pursuit
of that, you know, they pursue

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growth for those real reasons, and
in the process they cause enormal suffering in

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the companies that they acquire, and
how they then manage and run and lead

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those companies. I use the example
of a Brazilian company called THREEG Capital,

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which over the last couple of decades
has had a massive impact in the world

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and has acquired a whole bunch of
companies and created these massive, large companies

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in the field of beer and fast
food and a few other areas process foods

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and so forth. But the impact
that they have on the lives of the

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people who work there and those and
the customers and others ultimately is very negative

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and it causes great suffering. So
when THREEG Capital comes to town, you

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know that life is going to get
very harsh and very difficult and very tough

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for all the employees of that company. That customers are not going to be

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as well served, and we're going
to be creating products that are not necessarily

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good for their health and well being, etc. So that's one way the

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Empire building energy behind business growth,
which is I would say the dominant energy

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out there causing stamendous suffering. But
there's another energy behind which the example that

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I use there as Barry Vamula and
Bob Chapman, who until now I think

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he's about one hundred and twelve companies
that were dying and struggling and turn them

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around. And these were small manufacturing
businesses in the industrial Midwest and now increasingly

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in Europe and other parts of the
world, and they are not able to

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compete, and they're not able to
be profitable. And he acquires them and

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turns them around, right through a
combination of good leadership and management, but

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also changing the culture and making caring
for people the primary element of these businesses,

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because he says, we measure success
by the way we touch the lives

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of people. Really the same people, same business, same location. These

407
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:49.519
businesses are not thriving, and those
people are thriving, and their families and

408
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.640
their children and their communities are all
thriving. Right, And so Bob is

409
00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:59.519
on a mission to save in a
way, the future for these towns and

410
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.279
for these people. And I was
with him recently and he said he's looking

411
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.799
at I said, I know what
I uptown. He said, looking at

412
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:10.440
another twelve or so acquisitions this year. And I said, Bob, why

413
00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.079
do you need Do you already have
one hundred and eight or more companies?

414
00:29:12.200 --> 00:29:15.640
Right? You know what? You're
busy enough? Yeah, And you know

415
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:19.759
whyn't You're enjoying your twenty six grandchildren
and spending one. And he said,

416
00:29:19.799 --> 00:29:22.920
I don't know how much time I
have left, and on my death bed,

417
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.559
I will not be proud of the
machines we built or the money I

418
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.640
made. I'll be proud of the
lives we touch. And before I die,

419
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.759
I want to touch as many lives
as possible. And I said,

420
00:29:32.759 --> 00:29:36.400
Bob, you're not growing a business, You're spending a ministry. You know

421
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:41.599
the way a ministry should be,
which is about spending healing right and bringing

422
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.880
hope to people. So I think
that's the energy that should motivate us to

423
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:51.480
grow. Bob feels an obligation to
grow, not because of his own needs,

424
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:55.119
but because he wants to serve as
many people as he can. And

425
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.160
there are people now who are waiting, you know, for him to show

426
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:02.359
up, right, Because if Bob
Chapman comes to Tom, that means you

427
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.759
have a future. Good things are
going to happen. I want to just

428
00:30:06.839 --> 00:30:10.920
celebrate that really quick. Doctors as
Odia to be a person like Bob Chapman.

429
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.559
I share that idea, that urgency
that I want to touch as many

430
00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:18.519
lives positively as I possibly can before
I'm dropped into the ground. And I

431
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:22.240
appreciate that he still feels that urgency
despite what he's already done. And I

432
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:27.279
hope our listeners are really getting present
to just the possibility of the magnificence of

433
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:32.640
the human spirit and what really can
be done when our paradigms are shifted in

434
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:37.440
our mental models are shifted more towards
the positive of ministry and caring instead of

435
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:41.160
empires and conquering. So beautiful example
in him. In fact, you have

436
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.480
several stories in your book that we
don't have time to go through all of

437
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.759
them, but I wanted for you
to share a few more of them if

438
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:51.880
you would. Doctors as Odhia.
One of them that I really gravitated to

439
00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:56.279
was the story of non Kushori Shoudery
and why he is such a great example

440
00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.359
of a CEO who is creating a
healing organization. Will you share a little

441
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:03.720
bit about him and what he's up
to? Sure? So, he is

442
00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:08.880
the founder and CEO of a company
called Jaypool Rugs, which is a company

443
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:15.519
that produces handwoven carpets that are made
by traditional artisans who have been practicing this

444
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.839
craft for thousands of years, and
in India, a lot of these things

445
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.920
are done. You know, it's
organized by the cast system, right,

446
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.799
so you're kind of born into the
Weber community and those are the people who

447
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:32.680
make these carpets. The unfortunate reality
of India is that there's a deep stigma

448
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:37.000
associated with certain casts and some are
considered untouchable. And that happens to be

449
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:42.000
one of them. And so you
can imagine the life that you have if

450
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:45.559
you're born into one of those families. So imagine if you're born as a

451
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.519
girl into one of those families.
Now that's the sort of the lowest of

452
00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:53.079
the low that you can achieve and
you know, or be born into in

453
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.960
this life. You're born into an
untouchable family and your girl, which means

454
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.160
you will get fed lost and you
will get edge cat it at all if

455
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.480
you know at last, I mean
after the boys educated, most likely you

456
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:07.319
won't get educated. And at an
early age, you know, you will

457
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:13.160
start taking care of your younger siblings
and you will start took them clean and

458
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.599
then also start to when you're ten
years old, probably start to working on

459
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:19.440
the carpets, right, And that's
your life. And then you get married

460
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:24.920
off somewhere in your teens to another
We were family with her husband's probably alcoholic

461
00:32:25.000 --> 00:32:30.599
and abusive, and there you're expected
to everything you were doing already and have

462
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:35.240
children and in fact continue to make
carpets you were more intensively, right,

463
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:38.960
And so that's a life. You're
illiterate, you're abused by your in laws,

464
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.960
by your husband, and by the
contractors who bring these jobs to these

465
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:49.559
women in these villages promise them a
certain amount of money if they completed in

466
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:52.119
a certain amount of time. Typically
don't end up paying them that or playing

467
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.440
a fashion of that, and then
abuse them verbally and physically. It's actually

468
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.480
in other ways. So that's kind
of the reality of their horrific existence.

469
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:04.680
And none the Kishore show that he
came into this world, and you know,

470
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:07.599
he said, I want to serve
these people. He said, they

471
00:33:07.640 --> 00:33:09.880
are the innocence. They have never
harmed anybody. All they've done is take

472
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.839
care of other people and meet their
needs and never ask for anything for themselves.

473
00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.920
And I want to serve them and
I want to make their lives better.

474
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:22.519
And so he started his company,
Japo Drugs, where they seek out

475
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.960
these women and they treat them with
respect and dignity, They pay them much

476
00:33:28.079 --> 00:33:32.359
better, they have much better working
environment. They also have a foundation that

477
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:38.240
educates them, teaches them basic literacy
and math skills and accounting skills, encourages

478
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.480
them to become sort of small entrepreneurs
within the system, so they can then

479
00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:46.039
hire other women and then sort of
subcontract to the company so they can become,

480
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:53.440
you know, more more prosperous than
they than they were before. And

481
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:57.480
so I saw an example of this
when I went and visited and met a

482
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.440
woman named Shanty. And that was
the story that I told. He was

483
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.960
her story, and she had five
children, and she was almost reduced to

484
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:09.199
starvation or close to starvation at times. She has to sell her jewelry to

485
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:13.480
buy food or to pay some of
the other workers that were working with her.

486
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:16.760
And then she was discovered by Jeff
Rugs, and her life today is

487
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:23.000
completely turned around. She has five
children. The oldest has already graduated at

488
00:34:23.000 --> 00:34:25.679
college, second is in college,
the third is in eleventh, one is

489
00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:30.760
in ten when a boy, the
youngest boys in seventh. This illiterate,

490
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:36.320
penniless woman is now going to have
five children graduate from college. She has

491
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.840
a life of respect and dignity.
When I met her, you know,

492
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:40.880
she was laughing, and you know, and she said, if you came

493
00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:44.880
some years ago. I would be
sitting on the floor with my head covered

494
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.000
and I would not even be able
to look at you. I don't Today

495
00:34:47.039 --> 00:34:51.360
she'll walk up to you and shake
your hands and ask you in English,

496
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:54.199
how are you? You know,
that's the transformation that's possible. And asked

497
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:58.880
her how do you feel about mister
Cholsey and what he's done? In fact,

498
00:34:58.880 --> 00:35:00.920
he's actually he's just started, right, She said, I don't have

499
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:05.360
the words, you know, she
said to me, he is much more

500
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:08.199
than my mother and father. To
me, he is God because he gave

501
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:13.079
me life. I was alive,
but I didn't have a life, and

502
00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:15.960
now I have a life, and
my children have a life and their children

503
00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.000
will have a life. Right.
So that's the power. And you multiply

504
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.920
that by forty thousand of these women
that are part of their system. Right,

505
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.840
So the transformation is enormous. And
now they're also extending that to their

506
00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:30.920
customers. You know, they're saying
that you can either go into a store

507
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:36.159
and look at the cheapest carpet and
just buy it and go home, or

508
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:37.880
you can buy one of our rugs
and there'll be a barcode on the back

509
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:43.760
and if you point your phone at
it, you'll get linked to a video

510
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:46.480
of a family who made that,
and you will see the impact that this

511
00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:50.840
has had on their lives and their
children. They said, we're not selling

512
00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.840
you a carpet. We are sending
you a family's blessings through this carpet.

513
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:58.880
And so he said, we're going
to heal our customers and we're going to

514
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.559
give them no sort of a sense
of you know, the way that they

515
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:06.800
spend their money actually makes a difference
in the lives of others, and that

516
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:10.920
way we can start to spread this
this idea of healing throughout. That is

517
00:36:10.960 --> 00:36:16.360
so beautiful. Doctors to Sodium,
I'm gonna work on being not getting reduced

518
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:21.280
to tears here because that was so
beautiful. But the power, the alluring,

519
00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.360
beautiful power of that. Who wouldn't
want to aspire for that? So

520
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:27.400
thank you for sharing that. Let
me take us to our last break here.

521
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.840
I'm at least Cortez, your host. We've been on the air with

522
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.480
doctor ars to Sodia and F.
W. Oland, Distinguished Professor of Global

523
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:37.920
Business and Whole Foods market Research,
scholar and conscious Capitalism at Babson College.

524
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:40.360
He's the co founder and co chairman
of Conscious Capitalism, Inc. He is

525
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:45.360
the co author of Conscious Capitalism,
Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business and Wall

526
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:50.880
Street Journal bestseller Everybody Matters. He
joges today from Boston, Massachusetts. After

527
00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:52.880
the break, we're going to talk
about how to become a healing organization and

528
00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:16.599
a healing leader. Stay with us, we'll be right back. Elise Cortez

529
00:37:16.719 --> 00:37:22.119
is a speaker and engagement and development
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional development,

530
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:28.079
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring
her expertise to your organization. She

531
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:32.679
will help ignite meaningful development within your
workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance

532
00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:37.000
and retention. To learn more or
to invite Elise to speak to your organization,

533
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:43.280
please visit her at www dot Elise
Cortez dot com. She would welcome

534
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:52.679
the opportunity to help get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

535
00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:58.480
Purpose with Elise Cortez. To reach
our program today, send an email to

536
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:05.920
Elise al at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

537
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:14.800
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose. If

538
00:38:14.840 --> 00:38:17.119
you're just tuning in, my guest
is doctor Roger Scodia, the co founder

539
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:21.119
and co chair. I'mun of Conscious
Capitalism, Inc. And the author of

540
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.800
the healing organization Awakening the Conscious of
Business to help save the world. I'm

541
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.880
your host, Elise Cortez. So, doctor Scotia. Now that we have

542
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.440
helped our listeners understand the opportunity here
and present some really fantastic examples, the

543
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:38.519
last thing I want to do is
give them some actionable ways they can really

544
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:43.800
start to change those their mental models
and work toward this idea of a healing

545
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:49.039
organization. And so I want to
talk about you mentioned three principles that distinguish

546
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:52.000
a healing organization. I think it
would be useful for us to be able

547
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:54.840
to share those with our listeners.
So would you would you talk about those?

548
00:38:55.880 --> 00:39:00.159
Sure, There's one thing I'd like
to say before that. You know

549
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:07.000
that ultimately what this is about is
liberating certain forces that already exist within the

550
00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.159
organization, giving them permission to manifest. Right, So I say that the

551
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:15.920
most abundant resource on this planet is
unexpressed human caring. You know, human

552
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:21.800
beings have a need to care for
themselves, for each other, for causes,

553
00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:28.119
you know, for many things.
And our organizations can either amplify or

554
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:31.679
they can diminish our capacity or caring, and otherwise they can become vehicles where

555
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:37.679
we can express that or places where
we need to suppress that. And traditionally

556
00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:40.000
it's been the latter, right,
because we've thought about business as this place

557
00:39:40.000 --> 00:39:43.480
where we put on our mask in
armor and go to battle and fight the

558
00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.239
competitors and you know, win the
battles and do all of that. Right,

559
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:51.400
we're supposed to leave our humanity behind
and showing any sign of compassion and

560
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.039
caring, et cetera is seen as
weakness that you can't win in the world

561
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:58.880
if you're if you're going to be
operating in that we have to be nucleus

562
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.000
right only the parent it survive and
doggy doll. And it's not personally all

563
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:07.719
of that. But in fact,
as our work has been all about this

564
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.320
that womanis are built on love and
care actually more powerful. If we can

565
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:15.440
bring our full humanity to work,
we will actually have far more powerful businesses.

566
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.119
So there's all of this unexpressed caring
that exists in every company, all

567
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:24.679
these people with a tremendous capacity for
caring and for doing things for each other.

568
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:29.719
And then on the other sidea of
all this silent suffering. You have

569
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:34.320
people who are dealing with extraordinary things
every day of their lives. You know,

570
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:37.119
there was a thought bubble that we
could make visible above everybody's head about

571
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:39.440
what they're really worried about and thinking
about it. You know, it would

572
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:43.960
break your heart when you realize what
your colleagues are dealing with. And yet

573
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:45.840
for the most part, people are
silent, and they're just doing their work

574
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:51.599
right there, storic and they're heroic, and at the same time it is

575
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:55.000
eating away at them and ultimately impacting
their health and probably shockening their lives and

576
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.599
so forth. So if we can
allow these two things to come out of

577
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.719
the corporate closet that I hadn't know
way, the unexpressed caring and the silence

578
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.079
suffering, if we create a culture
where people are able to express, you

579
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:09.719
know, what they're dealing with and
what they need, and people are also

580
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:15.280
encouraged and able to help each other, right, I think that's going to

581
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:16.760
go a long way, and that's
something that has to be modeled at the

582
00:41:16.840 --> 00:41:22.199
top. Leaders have to really model
that. Right. There's a good principle

583
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.280
that we talk about when we write
about graced and bakery we're burning glassman you

584
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:30.639
know, talked about bearing witness right, that we have to bear witness to

585
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.480
the suffering that's out there. We
have to be able to see what our

586
00:41:34.519 --> 00:41:37.400
people are struggling with within the company. And once you bear witness and then

587
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:42.159
loving action will naturally arise from that. So I think we need to create

588
00:41:42.199 --> 00:41:45.519
a culture in which that happens,
where we surface and then allow people to

589
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:49.639
meet each other's needs. You know, we have we have we are here

590
00:41:49.760 --> 00:41:52.920
to care for each other, right
and business is a way for us to

591
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.760
do that at scale, and we
can do that for our customers, but

592
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:59.880
we can also do that internally.
I remember one of the experiences I have

593
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:06.280
was this vision of there's a woman
from Indian known as Amerge is the huging

594
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:10.000
saint. Out of her She goes
on the world and basically hugs people,

595
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.199
and people will stand in line for
eight hours and the hot sun, just

596
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:16.880
waiting for a hut and she doesn't
even say anything, but they feel this

597
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.760
surge of unconditional love from her,
and many of them walk away in tears.

598
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:23.519
And the message that I got,
I got an image of all these

599
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:28.679
people standing and waiting for this hug
and the message I got was all these

600
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:32.199
people could be hunging each other.
We have they have what they're looking for,

601
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:35.559
and you don't need to go to
another place and find it in some

602
00:42:35.679 --> 00:42:37.800
other person. And that's what we're
all here to do. So I think

603
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:44.199
that's a fundamental principle. And beyond
that in the book we talk about whereas

604
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:46.599
other practices that we've kind of distilled
from the twenty five stories. You know

605
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:51.239
that we have first of all,
that we assume as a leader of the

606
00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:55.119
moral responsibility to prevent and alleviate unless
they suffering, find out what is causing,

607
00:42:55.239 --> 00:43:00.880
unless they suffering. Well, these
rules and practices that we have right

608
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:04.039
and there are many examples of each
of these that we talk about in our

609
00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.400
stories. If we just have a
hierarchical way of being where you know,

610
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.719
people are abusing the people below them, If are we in some ways enabling

611
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:15.639
abuse, are we impact settling for
neutrality when we should be looking to have

612
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:20.480
a positive impact, we're just looking
to do less harm or actually actively looking

613
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:22.679
to do more good, whether it
comes to the environment or when it comes

614
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:28.159
to communities and so forth. I
think another element here is to recognize their

615
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:32.000
employees in many ways are the first
stakeholder that we have to All stakeholders matter,

616
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:36.360
obviously, and the well being or
everybody is important, but we have

617
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:38.719
to start healing begins at home,
and home is really the company itself and

618
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:44.920
the employees. And there a lot
of companies that are noble or trying to

619
00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:46.880
are saying that they're doing noble things
in the world with their purpose, et

620
00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:51.599
cetera. But there are places of
suffering for their own employees and that's not

621
00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.519
acceptable. So we really have to
start at home right and treat the well

622
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:59.480
being of our people as inherently important. And then beyond that, their families

623
00:43:59.519 --> 00:44:06.239
there, their parents, even all
of their their own stakeholders are impacted by

624
00:44:06.360 --> 00:44:09.199
that. And we look for creative
opportunities to bring joy, play and love

625
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:13.320
to the workplace, you know,
back where it stories in the book is

626
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:19.519
when Menlo Innovations, which aspires to
create a workplace of joy. And they

627
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:23.000
had a woman who was ending her
maternity leave but called in to say,

628
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:28.000
my daycare arrangement fell apart and I
can't come in, And the CEO said

629
00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:30.159
to her, I'll just bring the
baby, and she said, what do

630
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:34.119
you mean, how work? So
it doesn't matter you know, we'll figure

631
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.000
it out. You know, we
all have our children, you know what

632
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:37.760
to do. So she did,
and now we fast forward ten years and

633
00:44:37.800 --> 00:44:43.559
they've had about twenty six babies in
that office over the years and has just

634
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:47.119
become a practice and it actually spreads
more joy and reduces stress and so forth.

635
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:52.239
So there's all these opportunities. You
know, then when we actually start

636
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.039
to behave and think in a more
human way rather than always trying to be

637
00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:00.960
professional, incorporate and whatever. Right, and then you have to invest in

638
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:05.440
healing as well. We have to
look at one of the needs that people

639
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.400
have, make things available to them
that are going to help them physically,

640
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:12.840
mentally, emotionally, spiritually healed had
what kinds of things today, and going

641
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:17.039
beyond what we typically offer through our
wellness programs and employee assistance programs and so

642
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:22.239
forth, there's a lot more that
we could be doing. Agreed. Agreed.

643
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.440
It's so easy to listen to doctor
Studio. I sort of feel like

644
00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:29.079
I'm in this in this melodic sort
of dance. When you speak, it's

645
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:32.119
just it's beautiful to hear you talk
and share from your heart and your soul.

646
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.159
We're almost at the time, but
I do want to give you an

647
00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.440
opportunity, if you would, just
to say, you've got a whole chapter

648
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.480
dedicated to helping people become healing leaders
themselves. Can you just you've got ten

649
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:47.320
of those elements in that chapter.
Can you maybe just talk about one or

650
00:45:47.400 --> 00:45:54.239
two of them? Yeah. I
mean this kind of became personal for me

651
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:58.400
because of the experience that I had
writing the book. You know where I

652
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.760
was for steam Ahead, and I
had all my examples and stories and I

653
00:46:01.880 --> 00:46:06.039
was just going to churn it out
right. And I was told by three

654
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:10.559
people that if you're writing a book
about healing, you need to actually slow

655
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:15.920
down, and you need to look
inward, and you need to look at

656
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:22.960
what needs to heal within you and
work on yourself and then try to write

657
00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:28.800
this book. And I said,
I don't have time. I've got a

658
00:46:28.800 --> 00:46:30.199
book deadline. I said, no
bookadlines can be moved. And so I

659
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:34.440
actually did delay the book by five
months and experienced a number of things and

660
00:46:35.639 --> 00:46:37.840
got started on that journey. I
mean, I guess we're all on that

661
00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:39.920
journey anyway, but for me,
it was an intensive period of exploring and

662
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:44.800
looking at what needs healing and and
also, you know what we realize when

663
00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:47.760
you go through that is that which
is deeply personal is also completely universal.

664
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:53.719
There are insights that come out of
that which are not just specific to you,

665
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.960
but actually relevant right in the broad
away. So I would say it

666
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:01.639
starts there. To be a healing
leader, you first have to turn the

667
00:47:01.719 --> 00:47:07.760
lens inward and look at your own
life and your own traumas that you may

668
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:14.199
have experienced, your own blind spots, various experiences you may have had with

669
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.079
your parents in childhood or whatever it
might be, and learn how you can

670
00:47:17.159 --> 00:47:21.840
heal and go from those, because
if you don't, then you're going to

671
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:24.800
actually inflict that same kind of suffering
on others. You know, they say,

672
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:28.239
hurt people, hurt people. I
don't know, Yes, yes,

673
00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:34.239
I heard Ediva Ego knows. A
Holocaust survivor from House would say, we

674
00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.559
are victims of victims, all right, And she said, the greatest Nazis

675
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:43.400
inside us. We are our own
trumentous you know, So all of that,

676
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:45.440
there's just a tremendous need for that. I would say, the last

677
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:50.840
majority of people walking around with some
level of PTSD, you know, like

678
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.239
sentims. So it has to start
there, right, And then once we

679
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:58.599
do that tapping into that. We
have examples of that in the book.

680
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:00.840
Right. Eileen Fisher, why does
she start a company? Says I was

681
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.559
an uncomfortable human beings, so I
wanted to make clothes that make people comfortable.

682
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:09.280
You know. Danny Meyer struggled with
his own family and the sort of

683
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:13.480
difficult environment in which she grew up, and so he wanted to create a

684
00:48:13.519 --> 00:48:17.360
family environment at the workplace, a
healthy family system rather than the unhealthy family

685
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:22.239
system that he came with. Daniel
Lobetski of kind, you know, his

686
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:27.000
father again a Holocaust survival and he
was inspired by him in terms of how

687
00:48:27.079 --> 00:48:29.639
he chose to live his life.
And so so I think we can outcome

688
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:36.440
our own suffering and then from that
extract pearls wisdom that we can then bring

689
00:48:36.559 --> 00:48:38.800
to that some of the other things
we talk about. You know, you

690
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:42.039
have to be true to yourself.
You have to know who you are,

691
00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:47.000
understand yourself right and yes and doctor
so Sodiu, I'm so sorry to interrupt

692
00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.119
you. I wish we had more
time, but we are. We're out

693
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:53.559
of time. Last words and say
ten seconds that you'd like to share.

694
00:48:57.039 --> 00:48:59.639
I do believe at the end of
this pass is what I thought was a

695
00:48:59.719 --> 00:49:04.239
radic ideas actually a fundamental belief that
business is about healing. You know,

696
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:07.639
there's an a sort of aberration of
thought that we are put here to take

697
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.039
care of each other. That enoughree
society. Businesses are meant to serve us

698
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:14.960
and meet our needs. And if
we do that in the right way,

699
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.400
we will actually the instruments of healing. We will do suffering, elevate joy,

700
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:21.960
and promote healthy world. But if
we make it all about serving ourselves

701
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.199
and meeting our needs and using other
people, then we will create suffering.

702
00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:29.320
So business can be a place of
healing for everybody who works there. It

703
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:31.800
can be a source of healing for
everyone we serve, our customers and our

704
00:49:31.840 --> 00:49:36.480
communities, and we can be a
force for healing in society. We can

705
00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:42.440
show people, governments, other entities
how we work together despite our differences,

706
00:49:43.320 --> 00:49:46.920
when we have shared values and shared
purpose and a deep commitment to our own

707
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:52.400
humanity. Thank you Doctors Asia for
a beautiful, beautiful share with us on

708
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:55.719
the show today. Thank you so
much for being my guest listeners. If

709
00:49:55.760 --> 00:49:59.840
you want to find out more about
Doctors Socilia his various books, I think

710
00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:04.480
the easiest way to find him as
his own personal website. It's rajsa dot

711
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:08.639
com. R A J s I
s O d I A raj scodia dot

712
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:16.119
com. Thanks for being with us
and we'll see you next week. We

713
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:21.239
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.
Be sure to tune in to Working on

714
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:25.400
Purpose, featuring your host, Alice
Cortez, each week on the Voice America

715
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.119
Empowerment Channel. This week, find
your life's purpose at work